The Englishman and the bear is a trick question. I got no beef with the bear. If I pick the bear, I don’t get to fight the Englishman. And you never pass an opportunity to bouter de l’anglois. It’s a matter of personal pride.
Okay, but how often do Englishmen stalk or molest French people? How many Democrats have raped and killed a Republican?
Now the one re: communists and Nazis is actually close to being on point.
The point isn’t the bear, it’s the actual (like in the actual lives they’ve lived) dangerous and scary entity to the person being asked the question. I have been molested, I have been raped, I have never been scared of a damn bear.
The point is ABSOLUTELY the fucking bear. We KNOW you should be cautious around random men. That’s an obvious goddamn statement. The fact that you’d pick a bear is what’s sexist and insulting.
Have you ever even SEEN a wild bear?
I’ve never been shot in the head but I wouldn’t pick that over a strange person.
Why did you capitalize KNOW when referring to how dangerous men are? And mention how obvious it should be for one to be cautious around them? As if they’re some sort of wildly unpredictable animal (unlike a bear, a fairly predictable wild animal). And why do you seem to be on the one hand so fucking irritated that anyone else acknowledge that same fact and on the other so damned pissed that you had to point it out?
By the way, I do know a woman who was shot, in the god damned head. And she lived! You may be surprised to learn her husband wasn’t a bear.
Be a useless coward if you want. Spend your time being scared of something that is more scared of you than most people are of it (not you, tho).
I live in Georgia. There’s bears here that ain’t scary, and I can say that about all of them (seeing as cocaine bear is dead). I can NOT say they same thing about all the men I could run into in the woods at night in Georgia.
But sure, tell me again how ackshually the thing I should really be scared of is bears… ooh, and how about tigers? They’re really scary, right?
Why, did you know that when they are really little, like just newborn, men can’t even walk or hold a gun? Did you also know that most men don’t ever murder their partners? Doesn’t that seem safe? Surely more women are harmed by bears (and probably tigers, too) than little old men!
First of all, that’s just black bears, the most cowardly of bears.
Second, it’s too damn hot in Georgia for a bear to maul someone.
Thirdly, if you encountered as many strange bears daily as you did strange men, you’d be eaten by now.
Have you ever been shot in the head? Probably not. Well, since you don’t have experience with it, you’re not afraid of it, right? So better a bullet to the head than a strange man in the woods. Bullet has never harmed me.
All the responses siding with the bear so far have been either sexist or stupid. I’m gonna put you with stupid.
If I’d ever been shot in the head I can only assume it wasn’t a damn bear that did it. But sure. I should piss my pants at the sight of a wild animal. And pay no nevermind to the actually dangerous creature.
Like the bears ain’t scary around here, but we do see alligators often. Still less scary than a random man in the dark when you’re alone.
I think you’re forgetting the part wear the bear doesn’t tie you to a tree and force feed you to use you. See the bear will mostly likely leave you alone. Or kill you.
On the other hand. A human male can do FAR worse things than simply kill the woman. Which I will say some men would just kill the woman. And to my understanding of the last 6000 years of recorded history… Men do in fact do worse things than the bear.
I do understand that take. I just don’t think this meme is doing anyone a favour by polarizing genders.
I think it’s more important to present the issues in a way where both men and women can agree to call out the bad guys instead of just presenting the old “all men are potential rapists” when most are not. I’d prefer the guys who are not to stand up in solidarity with women against the ones who are, instead of being thrown under the bus with the few ones who are.
My husband calls in the middle of this and I told him I usually don’t see these sort of shit takes here and then I remember I’d been browsing ALL, for crying out loud. Go to see what fucking community it was… and it’s memes! My bad even commenting here probably, but complaining that memes don’t adequately capture the whole picture and may not be the best way to address the issue seems a little… I dunno but something - here in the literal meme community.
Y’all ain’t being thrown under the bus. My husband gets it. He is also an ally to women. But y’all ain’t there “standing up in solidarity with women” when we are being molested, raped, or murdered. These things happen to women ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME. You weren’t there in solidarity with me any of the times when I was actually harmed, but when I have something to say about how scary men can actually be, you are here to stand against me. Or at best, get me to think of your feelings instead of my own safety.
I would also prefer guys who are not rapists to stand up in solidarity with women against the rapists, instead of being thrown under the bus with the rest of the women that make men feel uncomfortable by reminding them of the things that actually happen in women’s lives.
The issue here is the way the message is delivered. We as a society need to bring attention to the issue of safety for women and sexual assault overall and try to find solutions for it. I think there are examples of great ways to do that (bring attention to it I mean, no clue how to fix it), one that comes to mind is the whole movement that I think was called #metoo or something along those lines? I think it brought a lot of attention to this and it allowed me personally to understand better the depth of the issue of safety for women. It made me more aware, it made me reconsider many things and made me want to be helpful.
Today there was another post around where it was asked of women “if all men disappear for 24 hours without consequences, what would you do in that time”. So many many answers were just “go party with my girlfriends and dress however I want and get hammered without feeling threatened” or something similar, and that post alone made the issue of safety for women so much clearer and stand out so perfectly than this meme, and more importantly the original question…
The problem is that this kind of discussion creates a barrier, it divides, it moves the discussion from the real issue, women’s safety, to a wrong topic, are men as dangerous as a bear. In itself it’s a question that promotes another type of sexism, it promotes fear, with the excuse of making a point and raising awareness. Instead of raising awareness it’s muddling the waters in reality which is not the way anyone will be feeling safer in any way.
Dude, are you all men at the same time? I’m not and I can acknowledge that some men are monsters. Womens’ fear of strange men isn’t something personal.
Speaking from seeing someone in this actual situation:
If you are treated like shit because you’re the only white kid in a black school, and grow up fearing black people, rather than recognizing that that was a local cultural tendency towards racism, not some universal behavior that black people have, it’s that racism?
Yes, it is racism. Even though in some cases, your fear is justified, thinking that black people in general will be racist is, itself, racist.
More to the point, though, it’s trauma - and people should understand that as well. Sexism and racism are not OK, but they are understandable. They don’t get fixed by only calling them out, though that is important. They require emotional work - both by people involved directly and by society at large.
So is OP’s post sexist? Absolutely. Is it understandable? Absolutely. …and both the sexism and the underlying causes that the sexism is a reaction to need to be addressed, by all parties.
Because I’ve been around them before. We’re not comparing angry bear to random guy. Bears that don’t have an extenuating circumstance don’t care about you. At most they want the food in your pack. If you just back away slowly and go a different route you’ll be fine.
I don’t read it that way. It’s more like you must admit the unfortunate truth that there are monsters all around us. I don’t perceive that threat myself because it doesn’t happen to me, but I hear a pretty genuine and consistent message from women, both trans and cis.
That seems a lot easier to accept. And I think the point is that if you can’t accept even that much, that raises questions about your motives and/or awareness.
It’s kind of an anti generalization stance. It’s the position against the generalization that women overreact and don’t have anything to fear from random men.
No. That’s adding stuff in. You’re either aware of why women you don’t know don’t want to be alone with you or you are the problem. It’s not about you personally.
You dont get it so could very well be a bear. If you cant acknowledge why women are scared of being alone with men who they dont know you are part of the problem
Your words, not mine. This isn’t about admitting anything, but understanding the lived experiences of women. You are literally acting out the meme here.
By no means? “Either you confess to being a monster or your denial is evidence you’re a monster”. I’m saying that I’m not a monster, but there are people like me that are. Those are very different statements.
Quite the unnuanced words you’re putting in my mouth. Some men are monsters. This is a true statement that you’re degrading for… reasons. I assert that I am not one while recognizing that they exist. Should it be revealed that I am in fact a monster, feel free to shove these words down my throat. I’m perfectly comfortable with women assuming I’m untrustworthy until given reason to do otherwise
Still remains the patently false dichotomy and kafkatrap. It’s a shit rhetorical device that serves no good. This isn’t even careful nuance, it’s pretty obvious.
No, it seems that your point is that women should not talk about their reasons and fears about being alone in the woods with a man they don’t know if it makes random men in the comment section feel attacked.
If there had been no hypothetical bear in the question, no men would be getting angry. “I feel wary around strange men” is an obvious statement.
And then when men get angry specifically because of the bear, all you smug fucks ignore the bear and pretend we’re saying it’s wrong to be wary around strangers at all.
There is no winning! All the “not all men” and “that’s misandry” dorks show up every single time a woman warns others to be careful around strangers.
As always, what women think needs to be filtered through what any random man can stand to hear. Women can’t discuss even their physical safety if it hurts a man’s feelings.
That is LITERALLY wrong. Absolutely not what I or women are saying.
Women in this thread seem to think otherwise which is mind boggling.
🙄🙄🙄
Just forget about the man for a second…she would pick death? What?
You are changing the premises so you can feel insulted by it.
It is safer to be in the woods with a random bear, than a random man. Not WOULD RATHER BE ATTACKED BY, its that the statically speaking the bear is probably going to mind its own business, while a man who knows we are alone can seek us out. Women feel that a random man is more likely to cause harm us harm, than a bear existing in the woods.
You’re entirely missing the point of the discussion.
I get that the way your post is phrased so that it’s shocking and incites an emotional reaction from men, thus further increasing the reach of your post. It’s valuable in the way that it gets the message out, helping everyone learn.
But you can’t then expect it not to be shocking and incite an emotional reaction from men, and then demonise them for not immediately seeing your point of view. It immediately undermines the ability to have a conversation about very real women’s issues.
You can’t expect men to be cold calculating machines that automatically have the required knowledge and emotional intelligence to see through this esoteric bear question. Hell, there’s a good chunk of women on side man
“Either you confess to being a monster or your denial is evidence you’re a monster”
Quite the bind
Yeah I get the idea the meme is saying, but it lacks nuance at best, and is actually sexist at worst.
Yes, the question itself is subtle sexism.
It can be used for any other kind of polarization:
Patriotism: “We asked 100 French people if they’d rather encounter an Englishman or a bear”
Political: "We asked 100 republicans if they’d rather encounter a democrat or a bear. "
Ideological: “We asked 100 communists if they’d rather encounter a Nazi or a bear”.
Gaming “We asked 100 Fortnite players if they’d rather encounter a CoD player or a bear”
Etc.
The only purpose of the bear is to remove attention from whatever is presented as being opposite.
The Englishman and the bear is a trick question. I got no beef with the bear. If I pick the bear, I don’t get to fight the Englishman. And you never pass an opportunity to bouter de l’anglois. It’s a matter of personal pride.
Okay, but how often do Englishmen stalk or molest French people? How many Democrats have raped and killed a Republican?
Now the one re: communists and Nazis is actually close to being on point.
The point isn’t the bear, it’s the actual (like in the actual lives they’ve lived) dangerous and scary entity to the person being asked the question. I have been molested, I have been raped, I have never been scared of a damn bear.
The point is ABSOLUTELY the fucking bear. We KNOW you should be cautious around random men. That’s an obvious goddamn statement. The fact that you’d pick a bear is what’s sexist and insulting.
Have you ever even SEEN a wild bear?
I’ve never been shot in the head but I wouldn’t pick that over a strange person.
So fucking stupid.
Why did you capitalize KNOW when referring to how dangerous men are? And mention how obvious it should be for one to be cautious around them? As if they’re some sort of wildly unpredictable animal (unlike a bear, a fairly predictable wild animal). And why do you seem to be on the one hand so fucking irritated that anyone else acknowledge that same fact and on the other so damned pissed that you had to point it out?
By the way, I do know a woman who was shot, in the god damned head. And she lived! You may be surprised to learn her husband wasn’t a bear.
Be a useless coward if you want. Spend your time being scared of something that is more scared of you than most people are of it (not you, tho).
I live in Georgia. There’s bears here that ain’t scary, and I can say that about all of them (seeing as cocaine bear is dead). I can NOT say they same thing about all the men I could run into in the woods at night in Georgia.
But sure, tell me again how ackshually the thing I should really be scared of is bears… ooh, and how about tigers? They’re really scary, right?
Why, did you know that when they are really little, like just newborn, men can’t even walk or hold a gun? Did you also know that most men don’t ever murder their partners? Doesn’t that seem safe? Surely more women are harmed by bears (and probably tigers, too) than little old men!
First of all, that’s just black bears, the most cowardly of bears.
Second, it’s too damn hot in Georgia for a bear to maul someone.
Thirdly, if you encountered as many strange bears daily as you did strange men, you’d be eaten by now.
Have you ever been shot in the head? Probably not. Well, since you don’t have experience with it, you’re not afraid of it, right? So better a bullet to the head than a strange man in the woods. Bullet has never harmed me.
All the responses siding with the bear so far have been either sexist or stupid. I’m gonna put you with stupid.
If I’d ever been shot in the head I can only assume it wasn’t a damn bear that did it. But sure. I should piss my pants at the sight of a wild animal. And pay no nevermind to the actually dangerous creature.
Like the bears ain’t scary around here, but we do see alligators often. Still less scary than a random man in the dark when you’re alone.
That’s not true and wildly unhealthy for you to believe. Not least of all because you might get your leg ripped into by a gator.
I think you’re forgetting the part wear the bear doesn’t tie you to a tree and force feed you to use you. See the bear will mostly likely leave you alone. Or kill you.
On the other hand. A human male can do FAR worse things than simply kill the woman. Which I will say some men would just kill the woman. And to my understanding of the last 6000 years of recorded history… Men do in fact do worse things than the bear.
Here’s a statue dedicated to it!
So will the man, that’s the whole fucking point.
You’re taking worst case scenario with the man vs best case scenario with the bear.
How many bears have killed people?? The point is the bear you fool.
I do understand that take. I just don’t think this meme is doing anyone a favour by polarizing genders.
I think it’s more important to present the issues in a way where both men and women can agree to call out the bad guys instead of just presenting the old “all men are potential rapists” when most are not. I’d prefer the guys who are not to stand up in solidarity with women against the ones who are, instead of being thrown under the bus with the few ones who are.
My husband calls in the middle of this and I told him I usually don’t see these sort of shit takes here and then I remember I’d been browsing ALL, for crying out loud. Go to see what fucking community it was… and it’s memes! My bad even commenting here probably, but complaining that memes don’t adequately capture the whole picture and may not be the best way to address the issue seems a little… I dunno but something - here in the literal meme community.
Y’all ain’t being thrown under the bus. My husband gets it. He is also an ally to women. But y’all ain’t there “standing up in solidarity with women” when we are being molested, raped, or murdered. These things happen to women ALL THE GODDAMNED TIME. You weren’t there in solidarity with me any of the times when I was actually harmed, but when I have something to say about how scary men can actually be, you are here to stand against me. Or at best, get me to think of your feelings instead of my own safety.
I would also prefer guys who are not rapists to stand up in solidarity with women against the rapists, instead of being thrown under the bus with the rest of the women that make men feel uncomfortable by reminding them of the things that actually happen in women’s lives.
#NotAllMen
#ButWeDontKnowWhichOnes
The issue here is the way the message is delivered. We as a society need to bring attention to the issue of safety for women and sexual assault overall and try to find solutions for it. I think there are examples of great ways to do that (bring attention to it I mean, no clue how to fix it), one that comes to mind is the whole movement that I think was called #metoo or something along those lines? I think it brought a lot of attention to this and it allowed me personally to understand better the depth of the issue of safety for women. It made me more aware, it made me reconsider many things and made me want to be helpful.
Today there was another post around where it was asked of women “if all men disappear for 24 hours without consequences, what would you do in that time”. So many many answers were just “go party with my girlfriends and dress however I want and get hammered without feeling threatened” or something similar, and that post alone made the issue of safety for women so much clearer and stand out so perfectly than this meme, and more importantly the original question…
The problem is that this kind of discussion creates a barrier, it divides, it moves the discussion from the real issue, women’s safety, to a wrong topic, are men as dangerous as a bear. In itself it’s a question that promotes another type of sexism, it promotes fear, with the excuse of making a point and raising awareness. Instead of raising awareness it’s muddling the waters in reality which is not the way anyone will be feeling safer in any way.
It doesn’t sounds like you get the point to me. You’re leaving out the part the men also kill women too. At an alarming rate in many countries.
Dude, are you all men at the same time? I’m not and I can acknowledge that some men are monsters. Womens’ fear of strange men isn’t something personal.
Sexism is still wrong, even when it’s used against men.
Yes, but a genuine fear someone has isnt sexism. The underlying issues are the problem.
Please spend a moment and consider the implications of what you are saying. Or don’t.
Speaking from seeing someone in this actual situation:
If you are treated like shit because you’re the only white kid in a black school, and grow up fearing black people, rather than recognizing that that was a local cultural tendency towards racism, not some universal behavior that black people have, it’s that racism?
Yes, it is racism. Even though in some cases, your fear is justified, thinking that black people in general will be racist is, itself, racist.
More to the point, though, it’s trauma - and people should understand that as well. Sexism and racism are not OK, but they are understandable. They don’t get fixed by only calling them out, though that is important. They require emotional work - both by people involved directly and by society at large.
So is OP’s post sexist? Absolutely. Is it understandable? Absolutely. …and both the sexism and the underlying causes that the sexism is a reaction to need to be addressed, by all parties.
Damn, a post that makes sense… I guess I found the needle in the hay… Really well put.
No they just made a straw man to hit.
How are you not afraid of the bear you stupid fuck???
I mean I hear black bears are pretty afraid of humans.
Because I’ve been around them before. We’re not comparing angry bear to random guy. Bears that don’t have an extenuating circumstance don’t care about you. At most they want the food in your pack. If you just back away slowly and go a different route you’ll be fine.
It is not sexism to be afraid of strangers in the woods
Then the question should be “a stranger in the woods” rather than “a man” right?
We are all all men at the same time on this blessèd day
Ahh kenm…
Can you acknowledge the logical fallacy of posioning the well that they pointed out?
It’s a non sequitur and you don’t even realize it lol
I don’t read it that way. It’s more like you must admit the unfortunate truth that there are monsters all around us. I don’t perceive that threat myself because it doesn’t happen to me, but I hear a pretty genuine and consistent message from women, both trans and cis.
That seems a lot easier to accept. And I think the point is that if you can’t accept even that much, that raises questions about your motives and/or awareness.
It’s kind of an anti generalization stance. It’s the position against the generalization that women overreact and don’t have anything to fear from random men.
No. That’s adding stuff in. You’re either aware of why women you don’t know don’t want to be alone with you or you are the problem. It’s not about you personally.
You dont get it so could very well be a bear. If you cant acknowledge why women are scared of being alone with men who they dont know you are part of the problem
Your words, not mine. This isn’t about admitting anything, but understanding the lived experiences of women. You are literally acting out the meme here.
That is my point. The meme deliberately presented a no-win bind.
This is a false dichotomy. The third option is to realize that there are monsters that look like you and that they should be addressed.
Like the bear? The bear that will definitely kill you?
That’s just the first option.
By no means? “Either you confess to being a monster or your denial is evidence you’re a monster”. I’m saying that I’m not a monster, but there are people like me that are. Those are very different statements.
To you, maybe, but not to the horde. You’re still saying “men are monsters”, you’re just personally exempting yourself.
Quite the unnuanced words you’re putting in my mouth. Some men are monsters. This is a true statement that you’re degrading for… reasons. I assert that I am not one while recognizing that they exist. Should it be revealed that I am in fact a monster, feel free to shove these words down my throat. I’m perfectly comfortable with women assuming I’m untrustworthy until given reason to do otherwise
Still remains the patently false dichotomy and kafkatrap. It’s a shit rhetorical device that serves no good. This isn’t even careful nuance, it’s pretty obvious.
Maybe because I’m a monster?
IT’S NOT FALSE, YOU’RE FUCKING DOING IT RIGHT NOW DUDE
No, it seems that your point is that women should not talk about their reasons and fears about being alone in the woods with a man they don’t know if it makes random men in the comment section feel attacked.
If there had been no hypothetical bear in the question, no men would be getting angry. “I feel wary around strange men” is an obvious statement.
And then when men get angry specifically because of the bear, all you smug fucks ignore the bear and pretend we’re saying it’s wrong to be wary around strangers at all.
Y’all would be mad if there was no bear and there was no woman. Some of y’all just want to be mad.
There is no winning! All the “not all men” and “that’s misandry” dorks show up every single time a woman warns others to be careful around strangers.
As always, what women think needs to be filtered through what any random man can stand to hear. Women can’t discuss even their physical safety if it hurts a man’s feelings.
No mens feeling are hurt here you’re presenting a false dichotomy. You’re literally saying death is better than men.
Make no mistake there is no “maybe the bear will hurt me”
The bear will fucking kill you.
Women in this thread seem to think otherwise which is mind boggling.
Just forget about the man for a second…she would pick death? What?
That is LITERALLY wrong. Absolutely not what I or women are saying.
🙄🙄🙄
You are changing the premises so you can feel insulted by it.
It is safer to be in the woods with a random bear, than a random man. Not WOULD RATHER BE ATTACKED BY, its that the statically speaking the bear is probably going to mind its own business, while a man who knows we are alone can seek us out. Women feel that a random man is more likely to cause harm us harm, than a bear existing in the woods.
You’re entirely missing the point of the discussion.
That’s the whole reason we’re angry dude, we get the point, we’re just saying it’s insulting and misandrist. Men are not monsters.
TIL that I’ve died dozens of times due to bear fucking killing me
I get that the way your post is phrased so that it’s shocking and incites an emotional reaction from men, thus further increasing the reach of your post. It’s valuable in the way that it gets the message out, helping everyone learn.
But you can’t then expect it not to be shocking and incite an emotional reaction from men, and then demonise them for not immediately seeing your point of view. It immediately undermines the ability to have a conversation about very real women’s issues.
You can’t expect men to be cold calculating machines that automatically have the required knowledge and emotional intelligence to see through this esoteric bear question. Hell, there’s a good chunk of women on side man