Wasn’t shocked until I saw the map. Holy shit! How was that roof/building outside the hard security zone?!
I am, at best, a mediocre shot and I’m no tactician nor a physical security expert. So I’d be looking at the area with a prejudice towards my own abilities. That shot would be tough for me, but doable even with irons.
About 0 evidence to back this (only hearsay that this is what he does), but I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump surrounded himself with only yes men agents and was running with a C tier team.
I mean, we know that he choked one of his own secret service agents when he was presidient because he wasn’t getting his way. I doubt those guys have a very high opinion of him.
yet one would think they would better secure one of the few roofs that is so close to the stage? it is not like this was a city square with one hundred rooftops and they let one slip. This was more like someone sticking a finger right in their eyes.
Yeah but you need a hard ID that the guy has a gun. The second worst thing to letting a former president get shot is killing a random person at a rally because you thought they might have a gun.
Damn, that morning coffee hasn’t kicked in yet. Even despite the context it took me a few seconds to realise you meant Secret Service, not Schutzstaffel. Although the latter feels awfully appropriate when we’re talking about Trump.
Maybe it’s simply because he’s not the sitting president and his detail is much smaller? I’m not at all familiar with the way FPOTUS security is run but I do believe I remember they don’t get anywhere near the resources POTUS gets. They’re also not often running for reelection so this seems like an increased risk, reduced resources situation.
I think so too. Actual POTUS security is insane. They can’t do that for all former presidents. People may see “secret service” and think it’s all the same, but it’s not. Still pretty bad though for SS though, they could have done a better job.
Doesn’t matter if its the sitting president or former you clear the roof secure the entrances then have people check it periodically even if it’s visual from a distance.
Normal practice is as follows for dignitaries let alone former presidents.
Secret Service man’s the venue itself. Local police man’s the perimeter. Every roof is not only secured but actually occupied. There’s an officer on every roof that is a concern.
Again, every roof physically has an officer on it. That’s how it’s handled for ambassadors, senators, and obviously leaders of a country.
Even still, the dude was on a roof only 400 yards away with minimal tree obstruction. How no one saw the dude climbing up there with a damn rifle and then set up in a prone position is beyond me. They’re claiming some people made comments that some weirdo was wandering around, but it’s baffling how counter snipers weren’t scanning everything and anything that allowed him to get as far as popping off as many rounds as he did.
Jesus, that’s unreal. That’s a pot shot even with a 22.
And yeah, I’ve been hearing that those investigating are having a heck of a time coming up with anything on this guy, apparently he was a real loner type.
All the more reason we really need more kindness in this world.
During Obama’s first campaign Bill Clinton came and spoke at a local college (maybe for Hillary? I’m not sure tbh, I was like 12), and I climbed up a statue plinth outside the speech zone to better see. Some guy in a black suit came and told me to get down immediately
Clinton spoke at my college commencement. He was still in office, I suppose. There were snipers on about every building in the city. 1000s of feet away. 100s of ft? A team of at least 2.
Maybe it’s simply because he’s not the sitting president and his detail is much smaller?
USSS details are heavily supplemented by locals for events like this. Even if the USSS team was relatively small, somebody – whether it was USSS, local, or state police – should have had a location that blindingly obvious secured. That building was literally the only real elevated position with clear line of sight in the vicinity of the stage. The fact that somebody could get up there without immediate security response is really almost unfathomable if it weren’t for the fact that it happened.
I remember the last attempted assassination - that of Reagan by John Hinkley back in the 80’s. In my opinion those Secret Service agents reacted much quicker & better than Trumps detail did.
I was shocked that their initial reaction seemed to be to just stand there like human shields, letting him try to mug around them. They should have physically held him down and immediately start pushing him off the stage. Trump was largely a motionless target for a prolonged period of time, which the Secret Service should have not allowed.
Wasn’t there a story that Trump had corrupted the Secret Service to the point that Pence did not believe they were there to protect him? Perhaps this is what you get if you prefer loyalty over competence.
Ah, that helps answer a question I’ve been having, which is whether we’re sure the bystander was killed by the assassin or if it’s possible he was hit by return fire from the Secret Service. Being between Trump and the assassin means yes, the latter is possible.
(Maybe a definitive determination of which possibility happened has come out already, but if it has I don’t know about it.)
150 - 200 m should not be a big problem for an average soldier with an AR and iron sights. Surely they would not aim for the head - which makes it easier too.
Wasn’t shocked until I saw the map. Holy shit! How was that roof/building outside the hard security zone?!
I am, at best, a mediocre shot and I’m no tactician nor a physical security expert. So I’d be looking at the area with a prejudice towards my own abilities. That shot would be tough for me, but doable even with irons.
The Secret Service has much to answer for.
About 0 evidence to back this (only hearsay that this is what he does), but I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump surrounded himself with only yes men agents and was running with a C tier team.
I mean, we know that he choked one of his own secret service agents when he was presidient because he wasn’t getting his way. I doubt those guys have a very high opinion of him.
They need to give 12 year olds versions of high profile areas to crush out on fortnight so we can see where the real danger areas are.
With all the intelligence we’ve seen in Ukraine, one would think a cheap ass drone would have been helpful.
Simply put the secret service is not the infallible killing machines they’d like people to think they are.
yet one would think they would better secure one of the few roofs that is so close to the stage? it is not like this was a city square with one hundred rooftops and they let one slip. This was more like someone sticking a finger right in their eyes.
Idk man they returned fire pretty much immediately. How’d he have time to line up a shot? A not bad shot for an amateur at that.
Are we to believe they were just a second too late?
The SS snipers were looking at the guy before he fired, they waited until he fired to shoot. My point being, they absolutely had the capability
Yeah but you need a hard ID that the guy has a gun. The second worst thing to letting a former president get shot is killing a random person at a rally because you thought they might have a gun.
Yeah. I wonder how many false alarms they face per rally.
Damn, that morning coffee hasn’t kicked in yet. Even despite the context it took me a few seconds to realise you meant Secret Service, not Schutzstaffel. Although the latter feels awfully appropriate when we’re talking about Trump.
Maybe it’s simply because he’s not the sitting president and his detail is much smaller? I’m not at all familiar with the way FPOTUS security is run but I do believe I remember they don’t get anywhere near the resources POTUS gets. They’re also not often running for reelection so this seems like an increased risk, reduced resources situation.
I think so too. Actual POTUS security is insane. They can’t do that for all former presidents. People may see “secret service” and think it’s all the same, but it’s not. Still pretty bad though for SS though, they could have done a better job.
It’s not just former POTUS though, it’s presidential candidate also. It honestly looks like a gargantuan fuck up.
He is the presumptive candidate rather than the actual candidate. Of course that shouldn’t make a difference, but it could be a bureaucratic thing.
Still not nearly as much as actual POTUS which is insane.
Doesn’t matter if its the sitting president or former you clear the roof secure the entrances then have people check it periodically even if it’s visual from a distance.
Normal practice is as follows for dignitaries let alone former presidents.
Secret Service man’s the venue itself. Local police man’s the perimeter. Every roof is not only secured but actually occupied. There’s an officer on every roof that is a concern.
Again, every roof physically has an officer on it. That’s how it’s handled for ambassadors, senators, and obviously leaders of a country.
Or have one dude with an Amazon tier drone.
Even still, the dude was on a roof only 400 yards away with minimal tree obstruction. How no one saw the dude climbing up there with a damn rifle and then set up in a prone position is beyond me. They’re claiming some people made comments that some weirdo was wandering around, but it’s baffling how counter snipers weren’t scanning everything and anything that allowed him to get as far as popping off as many rounds as he did.
Brace yourself…450 feet, not yards. It’s a reasonable distance for anyone with a good rifle, scope and experience.
Apparently the shooter was rejected from his school rifle club and asked not to come back.
Jesus, that’s unreal. That’s a pot shot even with a 22.
And yeah, I’ve been hearing that those investigating are having a heck of a time coming up with anything on this guy, apparently he was a real loner type.
All the more reason we really need more kindness in this world.
Yeah, somebody should have taught him how to shoot better and got him a better gun.
It is a bit surprising that there is no manifesto or any other indication of his motives.
wtf is wrong with this country
Not having the club. The gun fetishization is a different problem entirely than teaching kids to use a tool safely and effectively.
His mistake was going for a headshot
During Obama’s first campaign Bill Clinton came and spoke at a local college (maybe for Hillary? I’m not sure tbh, I was like 12), and I climbed up a statue plinth outside the speech zone to better see. Some guy in a black suit came and told me to get down immediately
Clinton spoke at my college commencement. He was still in office, I suppose. There were snipers on about every building in the city. 1000s of feet away. 100s of ft? A team of at least 2.
Fuck that makes me feel old.
USSS details are heavily supplemented by locals for events like this. Even if the USSS team was relatively small, somebody – whether it was USSS, local, or state police – should have had a location that blindingly obvious secured. That building was literally the only real elevated position with clear line of sight in the vicinity of the stage. The fact that somebody could get up there without immediate security response is really almost unfathomable if it weren’t for the fact that it happened.
I remember the last attempted assassination - that of Reagan by John Hinkley back in the 80’s. In my opinion those Secret Service agents reacted much quicker & better than Trumps detail did.
I was shocked that their initial reaction seemed to be to just stand there like human shields, letting him try to mug around them. They should have physically held him down and immediately start pushing him off the stage. Trump was largely a motionless target for a prolonged period of time, which the Secret Service should have not allowed.
Wasn’t there a story that Trump had corrupted the Secret Service to the point that Pence did not believe they were there to protect him? Perhaps this is what you get if you prefer loyalty over competence.
Tbh it says if you’re going to assassinate Trump, use a Barret and aim for the cuddle puddle if you miss the first shot.
I don’t have the sources, but if I remember right, almost all recent presidents have had assassination attempts.
This is the only one that’s gotten as close as Reagan’s
Got a link to the map?
This should work.
Shockingly close, isn’t it? I kinda suck, but I could easily do that with a scope. Maybe with iron sights.
Wowwwww
What indicates what on that map? There are two white and one black marker
Here’s a version with the labels still in it:
Holy crap that’s so close. Like not much past 150 meters.
For my fellow Americans, 150 meters would be 492 feet and 1 1/2 inches.
or roughly 82 bald eagles spread tip to glorious tip
Dude was a 6 iron away.
Ah, that helps answer a question I’ve been having, which is whether we’re sure the bystander was killed by the assassin or if it’s possible he was hit by return fire from the Secret Service. Being between Trump and the assassin means yes, the latter is possible.
(Maybe a definitive determination of which possibility happened has come out already, but if it has I don’t know about it.)
150 - 200 m should not be a big problem for an average soldier with an AR and iron sights. Surely they would not aim for the head - which makes it easier too.