but you’re prioritizing your own feelings over their real rapes by diverting this conversation
There’s a reason why multiple replies can be given to the same comment on this platform. It’s because this way, unlike talking, we can actually have multiple threads of conversations at the same time.
I am not diverting any conversation, just creating another one.
1 in 6 women get raped and you’re gonna let a few people who use social engineering in awful ways excuse that
You are attempting to create a feelings based response using this sentence.
You know what I have to do, before any of the other things mentioned, to take advantage of any such opportunity? ::
Be alert to notice such an opportunity
Somehow convince myself that the outcome of each and every step is desirable
A person who would willingly rape someone, won’t have the 2nd barrier. Similarly, a person who would willingly use the social power given to women (specifically to prevent rape), won’t have the same, 2nd barrier.
Those who would, won’t find find themselves doing so even given the easiest of opportunities.
The above post and the server it is on, is much more open ended and doesn’t mandate a certain specific type of violence. You seem to be having a problem with anyone responding to you with any other dimension of, what is essentially, a bandit - victim interaction.
Also, how many of those “1 in 6 women” managed to get away with lying?
I’m not claiming rape to not be a problem (as you might want to state), but statistics are not going to help win against it either. Specially considering how hard it is to determine the truth of it.
I’m focusing on a specific thing because the thought experiment that brought this whole thing up was about that specific thing. Creating a new conversation is diverting the larger conversation because you’re ignoring the things you don’t like (in before you accuse me of the same).
You are attempting to create a feelings based response using this sentence.
No, I’m implying that the real rapes of 1 in 6 women are more important than the impossible to quantify number of bad actors manipulating people for nefarious ends. Which also goes to your ‘women are lying’ point.
Also, how many of those “1 in 6 women” managed to get away with lying?
I’m not claiming rape to not be a problem (as you might want to state)
You are implicitly doing so by saying this in the first place. The issue of bad actors of all kinds (both liars and rapists) need addressed, but the conversation that the thought experiment has dredged up is focused on one of them. We can talk about those other things when they are a widespread societal problem that a significant proportion of the population decides to ignore because they don’t like the way the ignored are discussing it.
I’m not leading anything. I’m saying that addressing rape is more important than people’s feelings being hurt.
I’m also saying bad actors are the minority case of take and are traditionally brought up as a red getting.
Finally, I wasn’t creating feelings, I was pretty obviously pointing out that one thing is more important than the other to the extent that it should be obvious. If it is not, I’ll be happy to explain because I often don’t get things that are obvious to others and can relate.
If you feel like you are being attacked by rape victims saying they don’t trust men, you should probably look into why.
If you feel like you are being attacked by rape victims saying they don’t trust men, you should probably look into why.
I don’t go out enough to feel so and my lack of upper body muscles also helps. At the same time,
I am very fine with not being considered safe, since I myself don’t consider anyone safe. I stay cautious, no matter whether it is a child I’m passing by or someone walking around with a rifle and seeing someone similarly be cautious towards me is not going to cause negative feelings.
My point is, don’t use statistics as a crutch to make people realise the problem, because statistics will eventually breakdown and you don’t want peoples’ enthusiasm towards fixing the problem, to breakdown along with it.
It’s important for people to understand that even if the cases were 1 in 1000, it still is a problem.
And now we’ve circled all the way around to be mostly in agreement. Weird.
I pointedly disagree with the idea using statistics as a crutch, but I’m a tad biased being a data engineer. When it’s 1 in 6 (disregarding dark numbers of bad actors) it gets things moving and provides a reference point for when we finally do get off our collective ass and do something. Kinda have to shotgun whatever motivation will get people moving when it’s that severe. There are many kinds of appeals and that one hits some people, much like an emotional argument hits others differently.
And yeah, 1 in 1000 is also unacceptable. And we can fight that battle when we get there. Let’s not borrow problems from a (much better) future.
The basis of me pointing that out is that if you use statistics as the measuring to for success (which seems like the only option, but at the same time is lazeasy) of this, then solution providers will use the easiest solution to it, which hovers around trusting every woman’s claim.
Combine that with the social stigma that comes with being accused of(whether or not proven) rape and the mental trauma that comes with being falsely accused of any problematic thing and you see statistics rise for other problems, which weren’t significant before.
Post that, you will have countermeasures for those, having to balance between statistics of occurrences one problem vs the other, while the fundamental problem remaining the same:
As long as there is no good enough way to identify the bandit, there will be incentive for people to willingly take the bandit route. And the bandits in general win.
I feel that you’re unnecessarily blaming statistics (which as someone who does them, doing them well takes work. Though no shortage of people doing them badly, I digress) for a different societal ill: mob mentality.
The ideal solution is to investigate each instance of rape and mete out justice appropriately. Obviously that’s not going to happen. And the current state of affairs is also no good. Obviously, there isn’t a legal way to really handle any of it because everything we’ve mentioned is a crime. It kinda comes down to a cultural shift. People need to be be more willing to accept that rape occurred (because fears of not being believed are pretty valid sadly) and also that justice takes too much time (also a big social problem) and that there should be a lot more stigma about false reporting and a whole bunch of other things. I’m not gonna solve this in a lemmy comment, but I’d hazard that we all need to listen to each other (myself included) to start. I still contend the reason we’re having this conversation is that not enough people listen to anyone that does get raped in addition to a system that hasn’t caught up to the population or the times. I further hazard it isn’t that people are unaware of the horror of being falsely accused, just that it isn’t the biggest issue at hand (though that is a bitter statement for the victim).
There’s no good easy solution, but progress can be made.
There’s a reason why multiple replies can be given to the same comment on this platform. It’s because this way, unlike talking, we can actually have multiple threads of conversations at the same time. I am not diverting any conversation, just creating another one.
You are attempting to create a feelings based response using this sentence.
You know what I have to do, before any of the other things mentioned, to take advantage of any such opportunity? ::
A person who would willingly rape someone, won’t have the 2nd barrier. Similarly, a person who would willingly use the social power given to women (specifically to prevent rape), won’t have the same, 2nd barrier.
Those who would, won’t find find themselves doing so even given the easiest of opportunities.
The above post and the server it is on, is much more open ended and doesn’t mandate a certain specific type of violence. You seem to be having a problem with anyone responding to you with any other dimension of, what is essentially, a bandit - victim interaction.
Also, how many of those “1 in 6 women” managed to get away with lying?
I’m not claiming rape to not be a problem (as you might want to state), but statistics are not going to help win against it either. Specially considering how hard it is to determine the truth of it.
Anti Commercial-AI license
I’m focusing on a specific thing because the thought experiment that brought this whole thing up was about that specific thing. Creating a new conversation is diverting the larger conversation because you’re ignoring the things you don’t like (in before you accuse me of the same).
No, I’m implying that the real rapes of 1 in 6 women are more important than the impossible to quantify number of bad actors manipulating people for nefarious ends. Which also goes to your ‘women are lying’ point.
You are implicitly doing so by saying this in the first place. The issue of bad actors of all kinds (both liars and rapists) need addressed, but the conversation that the thought experiment has dredged up is focused on one of them. We can talk about those other things when they are a widespread societal problem that a significant proportion of the population decides to ignore because they don’t like the way the ignored are discussing it.
You are attempting to create a feelings based response using this phrase. Is that clear enough.
I’m not going to be a broken record here just to explain myself to someone who might try leading this conversation into accusing me of rape.
I’m not leading anything. I’m saying that addressing rape is more important than people’s feelings being hurt.
I’m also saying bad actors are the minority case of take and are traditionally brought up as a red getting.
Finally, I wasn’t creating feelings, I was pretty obviously pointing out that one thing is more important than the other to the extent that it should be obvious. If it is not, I’ll be happy to explain because I often don’t get things that are obvious to others and can relate.
If you feel like you are being attacked by rape victims saying they don’t trust men, you should probably look into why.
I don’t go out enough to feel so and my lack of upper body muscles also helps. At the same time,
I am very fine with not being considered safe, since I myself don’t consider anyone safe. I stay cautious, no matter whether it is a child I’m passing by or someone walking around with a rifle and seeing someone similarly be cautious towards me is not going to cause negative feelings.
My point is, don’t use statistics as a crutch to make people realise the problem, because statistics will eventually breakdown and you don’t want peoples’ enthusiasm towards fixing the problem, to breakdown along with it. It’s important for people to understand that even if the cases were 1 in 1000, it still is a problem.
And now we’ve circled all the way around to be mostly in agreement. Weird.
I pointedly disagree with the idea using statistics as a crutch, but I’m a tad biased being a data engineer. When it’s 1 in 6 (disregarding dark numbers of bad actors) it gets things moving and provides a reference point for when we finally do get off our collective ass and do something. Kinda have to shotgun whatever motivation will get people moving when it’s that severe. There are many kinds of appeals and that one hits some people, much like an emotional argument hits others differently.
And yeah, 1 in 1000 is also unacceptable. And we can fight that battle when we get there. Let’s not borrow problems from a (much better) future.
The basis of me pointing that out is that if you use statistics as the measuring to for success (which seems like the only option, but at the same time is lazeasy) of this, then solution providers will use the easiest solution to it, which hovers around trusting every woman’s claim.
Combine that with the social stigma that comes with being accused of(whether or not proven) rape and the mental trauma that comes with being falsely accused of any problematic thing and you see statistics rise for other problems, which weren’t significant before.
Post that, you will have countermeasures for those, having to balance between statistics of occurrences one problem vs the other, while the fundamental problem remaining the same:
And we diverge again, though not hugely so.
I feel that you’re unnecessarily blaming statistics (which as someone who does them, doing them well takes work. Though no shortage of people doing them badly, I digress) for a different societal ill: mob mentality.
The ideal solution is to investigate each instance of rape and mete out justice appropriately. Obviously that’s not going to happen. And the current state of affairs is also no good. Obviously, there isn’t a legal way to really handle any of it because everything we’ve mentioned is a crime. It kinda comes down to a cultural shift. People need to be be more willing to accept that rape occurred (because fears of not being believed are pretty valid sadly) and also that justice takes too much time (also a big social problem) and that there should be a lot more stigma about false reporting and a whole bunch of other things. I’m not gonna solve this in a lemmy comment, but I’d hazard that we all need to listen to each other (myself included) to start. I still contend the reason we’re having this conversation is that not enough people listen to anyone that does get raped in addition to a system that hasn’t caught up to the population or the times. I further hazard it isn’t that people are unaware of the horror of being falsely accused, just that it isn’t the biggest issue at hand (though that is a bitter statement for the victim).
There’s no good easy solution, but progress can be made.