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Of course not. They live for the outage and offense they cause. It’s like a validation for them that they’re on the right track. Like finding enemies in a video game, it indicates that it’s the path to follow. They don’t realize they’re the villain though.
They’re like stupid children with bad parents. But they are whole ass adults.
It’s so pathetic.
No, he looks forward to using me as a target for their collective derision.
This Thanksgiving we took an opportunity to talk shit to my 21 year old nephew. He had told me about horseshoe theory and other “I’m not right wing, I’m a moderate” bullshit before. Today he praised RFK. The three adults other than Grandma, being his mom, his aunt, and his uncle (me), all piled on with stories of what a bullshit hack RFK is.
Then we left him alone about it and had a good time. Strike hard and fast then talk about something else. Leave them with something to think about.
That sucks. I wouldn’t go.
My racist/sexist/generally terrible uncle calls me liberal, brainwashed and woke, not open minded.
Hey, my thanksgiving dinner was interrupted by me telling half my family they are not family, so theres always hope
Remind him a shepherd doesn’t keep his little sheep around for their nice company, he’s going to sell or eat them.
The Abrahamic god seems to be fattening up souls for consumption in the afterlife.
Okay. Now it’s starting to make sense.
Become a communist, then you can call him a liberal.
Communism is a liberal political and economic philosophy that finds its roots in The Enlightenment.
This is about as valid as saying liberalism is descended from Thomas More’s Utopia because he was an English humanist and thus all liberalism is Utopian thought. Or mercantilist, for that matter.
Kind of, sure, in the sense that socialism developed after capitalism, and Marxism and anarchism were mostly framed as having to develop from liberal/capitalist nations, but not in the way you mean it, or a useful way at all. For one thing, “liberalism” that doesn’t embrace capitalism is not liberalism ya goof.
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics and Western Political Theory in the Face of the Future:
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law.
I agree with this definition, above.
Furthermore, liberalism and its subsequent offspring - socialism (and all its variations), communism, anarchism, etc. - are antitheses to monarchism and divine right.
What is your definition of liberalism?
Woah. Doubled down with a definition that confirms you’re wrong
That’s close enough, I just know what “private property” means in this context (that’s the capitalism part btw) and that constitutional monarchies are acceptable to most liberal theorists, as the “absolute” power, aka the ability to make laws, is held by more or less democratic bodies.
Thus the UK being a liberal nation (there’s actually quite a lot of English law history that states that the monarch is not above laws, as America has recently found out is not apparently true for Presidents), and all socialist schools not being liberalism anymore than capitalism is merchantilism.
This is inaccurate. Not nearly enough slurs.
Guess he doesn’t call himself racist or sexist either
“Woke”. They say woke to somehow try to make inclusion sound like a bad thing.
The word itself used to have a good meaning.
It still does. They try to turn everything good into a slur to devalue it. I’m woke and I’m fucking proud.
I’m woke as fuck because I support the Constitution and civil rights. Fuck me, right?
Stay Woke.
I don’t get why we don’t call the “anti-woke” crowd “the asleep.” It seems like if they want to treat becoming awakened as an insult, we should be reminding them that they’re the ones who have their eyes closed and are attempting to ignore all of history.
The optimist in me believes that some day the majority of them will wake up, the same way the majority of Germans eventually denounced the nazi party.
The sleeping fascists
The majority of Germans denounced the nazi party because of social pressure to conform, which is coincidentally the same reason the majority of Germans went along with the nazi party when they were in power. The majority of people in general are so politically disengaged that they may as well be leaves blowing in the wind.
I just tell them to go to sleep then if they are so concerned about being woke. They won’t see the woke if they aren’t woke.
I like that one. Might use it myself.
They literally make “Antifa” out to be bad, lol. Like, sound it out: They’re “against fascism”. Shouldn’t everyone rational reject fascism…?
I certainly hope no one is against the base goal of being against fascist. However, I think the criticism towards Antifa is more due to their means of reaching that goal.
I meant more the position of being “antifa”. Isn’t the actual organization decentralized and unstructured, like Anonymous? That’s literally all I know about Antifa, and even that might be wrong…
Antifa isn’t an organization. Yeah back in Nazi Germany it was, but nowadays its just a movement. There is no organization, any group or person can take up the movement, symbolism, etc of antifascist action (antifa). It is genuinely a situation of if someone is “anti-antifa” then they are either stupid or a fascist.
I think antifa is best described as a strategy to cope with fascist creep.
To describe it with the words of a German pu k Band: “Bist du Anti-Antifa, bist du FA” ( are you anti-antifa you are Fa(cist)).
“Movement”, thank you. That’s the term I was reaching for!
Like fighting a war against Nazis?
I know this is a joke, but if this is genuinely how someone thinks, then it so self-absorbed and narrow minded to not be able to step out of your own mindset.
The comment implies absolute good/evil and that people are knowingly acting evil. The people you don’t agree with do have consistent moral principles that they are working with (however misguided or skewed they may be). I can’t stand racist/sexist people either, but if you can’t see how these people are worried that “woke” people are destroying their view of society and threatening their morals, then you won’t really be able to engage them to change their minds. This entrenched thinking is why all discourse is now just shouting matches at each other.
The people you don’t agree with do have consistent moral principles that they are working with
Fuck no, they absolutely do not. Their principles are entirely cherry picked and applied only when convenient. If you can’t see that, I’m not really sure what world you’re living in but it ain’t this one
I think what’s more depressing about all of this is how many people agreed with you…yuck
And what’s most uplifting is that of all the replies expressing disagreement, yours was the only disrespectful one
Well, not everyone is going to be openly vocal about a shitty take. That’s a personal choice anyone can make. Just like I chose to express my disagreement about that original pointless comment, about my disappointment at anyone who upvoted it…and now at you too for, I’m guessing, being one of those who also upvoted that.
Am I supposed to feel bad about someone who’s playing the devil’s advocate for racist people? Lmao
There was a time when I was worried about changing people’s minds and trying to see things from their side. It’s not worth the effort any more, at least for me. They’re dug in and want to argue, but they aren’t open to changing their minds.
I don’t feel like it’s my responsibility to tolerate their hatred to try to explain why they should care about people that aren’t like them. I’d rather spend time with the people that I feel safe around and know aren’t bigoted
Nah, it’s sports team mentality. You can say any reasoned, logical, humanist argument you want, but people will never turn against their “team”.
That is verifiably wrong. Daryl Davies is a black man who has convinced dozens of members of the KKK to renounce their beliefs and their robes. You absolutely can convince people that their beliefs are wrong.
Exactly. There was a fantastic podcast episode looking at how he did this, but I can’t find which specific episode it was now.
I can’t believe what I said is being considered such a disagreeable hot take…but I guess that’s how polarised the world has become.
Your take is only disagreeable because of how unrealistic it is. Do you honestly think everyone else, or even better, society as a whole can implement such time-consuming and long-term methods?
I’m not arguing against the worth or effectiveness of the method. It’s actually extremely impressive as a story, but is it feasible as your average way to deal with racists?
Spoiler, no it’s not feasible
You’re also on Lemmy so not exactly a fair sample demographic
Yeah you can, but it’s damn hard. I’m aware of Daryl and he’s done great things, it it’s a tiny fraction of 1%.
If you have the time, the means, the resources and the will probably. Is it worth it? Most likely not.
when is this stupid “we need to sit down and ‘talk to nazis’ in order to change their minds” attitude going to finally fucking die?
we’ve been way too fucking tolerant of that shit for way too many years, and thanks to that, we’re living in a fascist country now. excuse me, but fuck that shit.
fuck trump, fuck everyone who voted for him, fuck everyone who voted third party, and fuck everyone who didn’t vote. the time for trying to “understand” and “engage” cultists who literally throw away any viewpoint they don’t like as “fake news” is long fucking past.
this stupid bullshit is why we got trump the first time AND now.
edit: the only reason biden won 2020 was because of trump’s absolute-worst-fucking-possible response to covid, which would have been fucking hilarious if so many innocent people didn’t have to die from it
No they think “Oh goody! I get to start a fight and feed off my own rage and self righteousness and own the libs at the same time! And there will be pie!”
Man, I’m not seeing any of those motherfuckers. They don’t warrant the time of day, let alone getting to disturb my peace. I’m just gonna make some good food and hang out with my mom and the dog and have a nice day.
Tell your dog I said hi, and wish I could hang out with them!
She says “what’s up and also do you have any turkey?”
Yes.
Or like my parents, before I stopped attending altogether, “Our ‘lost’ son is going to be there, we need to pray for his soul.”
I hope you surrounded yourself with other people who love you since then. Stay strong.
People who love are few and far between, but I am doing better now than I was. Thank you.
The traditional way this was phrased was “bleeding heart liberal”. The implication being that they were so giving as to be gullible and not realistic.
Nowadays the preferred insults are “commie” or “woke”. I don’t hear it directed at me much, due to particular family circumstances that forced them to accept my gay-married trans ass, but boy do I hear it about Democrats every year.
(I know that Dems aren’t commie or even ‘woke’ most of the time, but to them it is a distinction without a difference. To them, those terms refer to anyone who thinks that people don’t deserve to die for the ‘crime’ of being homeless.)
Glad for you your family at least accepted your identity and partner.
Curious what circumstances “forced” them to accept you. My parents have turned me out pretty quickly after coming out to them as trans (and gay since I was already married to a woman)
I feel like Gen Z is massively disappointing.
Completely disagree. I don’t have kids, but my niblings are cool as shit. The oldest one has become a misinformed centrist but that’s about as bad as it gets. Thinking of them and other examples, I am hopeful for Gen Z. Hopeful for them personally, their future will suck more than mine.
Gen Z are electing people like Donald Trump and the AfD, threatening to overthrow democracy if we end TikTok, and openly opposing NATO. They’re the fucking New Boomers, whoever called them Zoomers must have been a psychic. They’re iPad Babies who grew up with a world of knowledge and opportunity and used it to ignore reality.
I’m allowed to state MY FEELINGS on the matter, I feel like Gen Z is MASSIVELY disappointing.
Any and all generations voted for Trump. What a dumb thing to say.
This is one of many examples of Gen Z reversed the trend on conservatism declining in elections across the globe.
Right because expecting someone in their early 20s to make a more rational decision than someone in their 30-40s totally makes sense.
Again literally ever single generation voted for Trump. Trying to call out a specific generation is hilarious and ignorant.
I hope I didn’t hurt YOUR FEELINGS or your ability to state them.
Pretty much. My whole family was fairly left leaning once upon a time. However they have since fallen for the mass trump indoctrination.
My mother who was once an elementary school teacher to some of the most under privileged children in tulsa, who lived for her job and only wanted a better future for her Hispanic and black students now wants those very children to be deported if illigeal cause she took the trump pill.
My father who used to employ only Mexicans for his somewhat successful construction company, wants that cheap labor deported as they are " taking US citizens jobs" like what?
The craziest part is my family is half Mexican, my grandma came from Mexico to the us in the 50s in search for a better life for her children. So my dad is half Mexican. Talk about some irony.
My Mexican nana would be sad to see whom her children are blindly following
Sorry for tge rant but sheesh, its gonna be a rough day
My Florida (of course) cousins are half-Thai and rabidly anti-immigrant (their father, who was white and also rabidly anti-immigrant married their mother in Thailand in the service and brought her back to the US). It just doesn’t make any earthly sense. For bonus points, they both happen to look vaguely Central American and have been harassed for that all their lives.
I work with a lot of immigrants. Some 1st generation some others. They’re all “legal”. No one shits on immigrants like other immigrants. Many of them feel the need to tell people they’re not like those other ones. It’s sad.
Are you sure they don’t have early onset dementia? One of the symptoms is loss of empathy
I’m so sorry
Some jews voted for Hitler…
Talk about leopards eating your faceMy mom went though her self proclaimed “trump era” during the 2016 elections after my sister came out as bi. It was hell. I’m terrified of what she’ll do if I tell her I’m trans and have known so for 5+ years.
My sister’s boyfriend is trans (on HRT for 3 years) but she’s started going own a spiral again after my sister told her, today she dropped the line of “He is NOT getting my blessing!” and my (homophobic but doesn’t know) grandma said “well guess [sister] is gonna be like me and Pop!” as my grandma didn’t get a blessing for her marriage.I don’t know your situation, but I’m glad I came out even though my parents and others rejected me for it. A lot of things in my life are worse because of their rejection, but my life as a whole is better just for living as myself.
You may not get a blessing from your family for who you truly are. However there are a ton of folks that support you and whoever/However you want to live your life.
Be gay Do crime And be kind 😉
Tulsan here as well. I had a Harris sign in my yard for a couple of months for all the good it did. There were actually quite a few if them where I live in midtown (21st and Lewis). But this is the blueist part of town…
My paranoid brain needs me to recommend that you edit out those cross streets.
Think there are definitely people that choose to believe the world is a certain way because that feels right and that’s how it should be. Rather than what it actually is. Just completely brainwashed and refusing to see evidence.
Plenty of woke people will claim immigrants from poor countries, that have intolerant religions and low records for homophobia and sexism even from places like UN, will be upstanding citizens and cause 0 problems at all (as a group average).
Those people are equally if not more annoying.
Liberals are worse than fascists then. Jeez I don’t like liberals either but they’re not that bad
One time as a kid I took a southern Baptist church trip to Central America. When I got back my racist uncle said “y’all look like a bunch of foreigners.” Mind you that at the time I was blond enough to be a Hitler Youth poster boy, but heaven forbid my skin was brown from being in the sun. 🙄
Has god blessed him with life to this day?
Yes, just with very different adjectives
Yeah, kinda. My racist aunt was like: “yeah, so I’ve had some issues with my daughter. She’s woke, you know, so she gets angry at everything I say. I can’t say anything anymore. I don’t mind her not coming over. No respect for the parents and elderly these days, their generation is totally fucked up. Must be puberty or something.” (*my cousin is 32)
I don’t know what they say because I’m the one they’re probably saying it about
I do know what they say because both my racist narcissistic aunt and mother say it to me in my face. They get angry at me for telling them what they say is racist / homophobe / transphobe / supports genocide (they are pro Israël), tell me I act like a child, don’t know anything about the world, have no respect, should keep my mouth shut, shouldn’t have come, should be ashamed of myself. “Next time behave and let us speak our opinions (meaning shut up and listen) or don’t come.” So now I have cut them completely off. They are angry about that too but I blocked them so it’s not my problem anymore. They are in their 70s so should die soon I hope. Makes this world just is little bit less horrible.
