Hugh Nelson, 27, from Bolton, jailed after transforming normal pictures of children into sexual abuse imagery

A man who used AI to create child abuse images using photographs of real children has been sentenced to 18 years in prison.

In the first prosecution of its kind in the UK, Hugh Nelson, 27, from Bolton, was convicted of 16 child sexual abuse offences in August, after an investigation by Greater Manchester police (GMP).

Nelson had used Daz 3D, a computer programme with an AI function, to transform “normal” images of children into sexual abuse imagery, Greater Manchester police said. In some cases, paedophiles had commissioned the images, supplying photographs of children with whom they had contact in real life.

He was also found guilty of encouraging other offenders to commit rape.

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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    2 months ago

    I think the last two paragraphs in the body of this post are the real issue here, not that he was just using AI to create CSAM.

    • Mango@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Right? Feels like this is being tacked on as a shot at AI. Otherwise nobody is harmed except the guy. Pedos are ick, but if harmless then why punish? I don’t think anyone should have to take a fall because others think their desires are gross.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          2 months ago

          I agree, but if there were some way to create CSAM without using real children (I’m not sure how you would train such an AI model), it would probably be worth seeing if that did anything to make pedophiles less likely to act out on their desires.

          Because my god, we need to figure out something.

          • Zorque@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I mean trying to help them get treatment instead of going all pod-people on anyone showing even the possibility of being attracted to kids would be helpful.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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              2 months ago

              I’ve been saying that for ages. Obviously we don’t want to enable any pedophiles to do anything horrific to children, but we’re at a state right now where if you have those urges to begin with, you’re basically already told to accept that you’re an incurable monster. So why not act on the urges?

              Somehow we need to get through to such people that they need to get help before they do anything terrible. I’m not sure how to do that in the current climate though.

          • JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz
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            2 months ago

            The way AI models work, you don’t have to train it on the thing you want it to do, you can ask it to combine the things it knows about. Take any of the meme loras for example, like pepe punch or patcha.

            So literally any model that can generate pictures of naked adults and clothed children - which is to say almost all of them - is going to be at least somewhat competent in creating CP unless those prompts are being actively censored and blocked.

            • Danquebec@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              Wouldn’t that generate images of children with small-sized adult bodies?

              If it doesn’t know what a child’s body looks like, it can’t just figure it out.

              • JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz
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                2 months ago

                The datasets will have enough images of kids in bikinis and underwear from stock photos and clothes shop listings etc to figure that part out rather easily.

          • otp@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            Train it to depict humans that look like anime characters that are definitely 18 or older immortal dragons that are taking on the bodies of young human beings

            Disclaimer

            I am not condoning, endorsing, or suggesting this

              • Organichedgehog@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                “it would probably be worth seeing if that did anything to make pedophiles less likely to act out on their desires.”

                What’s the implication here? You’re saying we should look into placating child predators by creating AI CP for them to consume?

          • Jake Farm@sopuli.xyz
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            2 months ago

            Its a form of stalking, probably makes it more likely for them to rape that child, even if they don’t wind up doing that it would still qualify as a form of revenge porn.

            • Mango@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              It’s not stalking and “probably” shouldn’t rouse a courtroom.

              • curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                2 months ago

                It is when they are commissioning these “works”.

                Ed8t: To be clear, that’s what happened here.

                • Mango@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Commissioning as in buying? I’m not sure how that changes it to stalking.

                  IMO, the worst part about it is that there’s someone else out there who thinks less of me because there’s some naked imagery of me.

                  • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    People will always find ways to think less about you.

                    For example, I think less of you because your comments support pedophilia.

                  • curbstickle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    2 months ago

                    Commissioning as in a buyer has an interest in a particular child. They ask the guy using ai to make a custom bit of CSAM, so the buyer can have CSAM of that specific child.

                    That kind of commissioning.

                • Mango@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I can buy photos of Robert Downey Junior from Marvel Studios and that’s not stalking.

      • cygnus@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        I think this was a crime because he modified images of actual kids. If the images were 100% AI (not of real people) I’m not sure on what basis that would be considered a crime, no more than a handmade drawing of a nude minor drawn from imagination.

        • FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Any sexual representation of a child is illegal in the UK whether it looks real or not. In fact I believe it doesn’t need to even be a child, it’s a illegal if a reasonable person would believe it was depicting a child. This came up when adults who were into age play got into trouble distributing their images because it looked convincingly underage.

          • Jake Farm@sopuli.xyz
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            2 months ago

            Wait so even if the subjects are adults in costume its illegal? Fuck man, school uniforms is a whole genre of porn.

            • FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Relevant part of Coroners and Justice Act 2009 (UK)

              Section 65 (regarding what “child” means in the context of indecent images)

              (6)Where an image shows a person the image is to be treated as an image of a child if—

              (a)the impression conveyed by the image is that the person shown is a child, or

              (b)the predominant impression conveyed is that the person shown is a child despite the fact that some of the physical characteristics shown are not those of a child.

              (end quote)

              In other words, an image can be treated as an indecent image of a child if the “impression conveyed” is that the person is under 18, even if that person has older “physical characteristics”.

              This legislation is more directed at non photographic imagery (so hentai / CGI etc) and the reference to physical characteristics is apparently a reference to a large breasts or “1000 year old vampire teeth” not being viable as an excuse that the image doesn’t give the impression of a child.

              I can’t recall specifically what legislation was used regarding the age play couple I referenced. I can’t find a specific law that says it’s wrong for a photograph of an adult to appear underage. So it may just be that they were reported to police because they shared their images online without context. I don’t know if they were subsequently prosecuted.

          • AmidFuror@fedia.io
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            2 months ago

            And I suppose we can rely on the courts to know sexual when they see it, so people don’t get in trouble for taking pictures of cherubs at the Louvre.

          • cygnus@lemmy.ca
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            2 months ago

            Thanks for clarifying, I didn’t know that. Seems like a bit of an overreach to me, but I suppose in this particular case it’s best to err on the side of caution.

        • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          In the US federally you might be able to get away with creating the images for yourself if they are 100% fictional, but the guy also was doing commission work. The moment you start transmitting the images (and selling would involve that) it becomes very very illegal.

        • Mango@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I don’t really think anything is 100% AI. I also don’t really believe in the concept of thought being a crime and extend personally kept data to that realm.

      • Dr. Wesker@lemmy.sdf.org
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        2 months ago

        The fuck? Nothing about generating and distributing CSAM material is harmless, and especially if images of real children are being used to generate it.

          • otp@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            Would it harm you to have identifiable nude photos of you available for download on the internet?

            Would it harm you to have identifiable nude photos of you being used to train AI so that it can create more nude images that are “inspired” by your nude images?

            Would you be happy to upload your children’s nude photos so that people on the internet can share them and masturbate to them? Would you be harmed if your parents had done that with your images?

            • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Most AI generated images are not of real, identifiable people. I agree that deepfake porn is bad, whether of a child or adult, but that’s a separate category.

              • otp@sh.itjust.works
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                2 months ago

                You’re definitely right, and I’m aware. The smaller the sample size, though, the more likely an AI art generator would create something that looks very similar to a given individual.

                As well, some AI art generators accept prompt images to use as a starting point.

            • Mango@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              As a child? No. In fact, I can milk that for pity money. As an adult, I can’t see how it matters. I don’t like it, but it doesn’t hurt me any.

              Also definitely no.

              Again, double no.

              • otp@sh.itjust.works
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                2 months ago

                To clarify, the second last question about your children was “would you be happy to …”

                If you wouldn’t be happy to, then why not?

                And if you would be happy to do that, then why? Lol

                • Mango@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  You got me there. It’s definitely weird and gross and therefore no. That’s harm enough, but that’s more a matter of it being published and real. This dude doing it for himself is hardly different to me from fantasizing in your head or drawing in your sketchbook. That said, what was his AI training material? He’s also doing this for other people and encouraging rape and shit.

                  • otp@sh.itjust.works
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                    2 months ago

                    What makes it different than imagining it or drawing it is that the AI is using real photos as training material. If the parents are knowingly providing images, that’s questionable. If the AI is discovering CSAM images, that’s horrible. If it’s using non-CSAM images of children without the knowing consent of the parents, that’s pretty bad too.

    • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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      2 months ago

      Yeah, that changes it a bit - that definitely has more of a creep factor. I still question if it’s really the kind of thing that should land you in jail for a long time.