Especially with the rise of “ghost postings” so quantity over quality is greater than ever these days
Maybe it’s the shit market that I’m applying to, but when I apply for a retail job, they want a fully filled out application (that auto fill always Borks, so I have to type everything in manually) as well as a cover sheet and some places want you to take a personality quiz that you have to pass for hr to even see your application. I couldn’t imagine applying to 4 jobs a day, let alone 40.
I imagine we are talking about corporate postings where you just paste a link to LinkedIn and that does most of the work?
Lol holy shit I forgot about those “personality tests.” They are (well, were at least, I imagine its still like this) basically just a way to filter out people too stupid to not know what answers they want to hear. Questions like, “You see a coworker stealing money from the register, do you: a) pretend you didn’t see anything, b) join them and start a gang, or c) tell the manager on duty”
Shit is so laughably stupid.
Yeah, the trick is to pretend you are A mixture of Ned Flanders and a ditzy cheerleader when you answer.
if indeed doesn’t allow me to quick apply, it’s gotta be a dream job to even want to go to their site and do even more work.
And then when you get past all that, they suddenly want a group interview… like, sit in a room with many other candidates and have an interview.
Yeah, about that cover sheet. Did you not get the memo? We’re putting new cover sheets on all the applications now, mmmkay? If you could just do that from now, that’d be great.
Jesus that sounds so demeaning. I haven’t had to apply for a job in about 15 years now. All networking, and I was poached and offered my current job. Union now, so I’m set. I don’t remember having to jump through so many hoops when I was younger and applying for a job, but recently I passed by a Wendy’s and there must have been 50 people lined up outside with resumes because there was a job posting. That many people for one burger job, that’s hard times.
I’ve worked for several big corps have never seen anything like that.
lucky you, it’s becoming more common.
I still don’t know what a cover letter even is. never used one and don’t plan on starting. no one’s reading that crap anyway
It’s the thing that gets fed into an LLM to opaquely grade you before your resume gets looked at by a human
That’s why you use an LLM to generate it
The resume shows experience and the cover letter shows personality. If the job has any kind of soft skills a cover letter is a bonus, if the job is super technical it’s probably not necessary. It also depends on the workplace.
If it is a job you actually want though I would recommend writing something. I’m on a smaller team and read all the resumes of applicants. I actually read them because I’m going to be the one contacting, interviewing, and working with them. I absolutely read the cover letters and give a small bonus to people who include them.
I interpreted it as the resume shows your experience while the cover letter shows you know how to write coherently (plus gives you an opportunity to clarify anything on your resume)
Just use a cover letter template with changeable placeholders
I think cover letters are still absolutely relevant to the job process.
I liken cover letters to cheat sheets that you prepare for an exam. You may not need to make one to be successful, but can be very helpful.
Usually with cover letters, I try to make the argument that I’m good for the company, and the company is good for me. This usually allows me to frame the way I look a new job as a business agreement where both parties can benefit, and that I’m not a parasite taking from them and not giving.
I don’t make cover letters for each and every position I apply to or look into, but for those ones i think I have a good chance of landing and those companies I believe in, I’ll absolutely put in more effort with cover letters.
Interesting. I’m a hiring manager, and I’ve seen many cover letters that actually hurt the candidate because they have typographical errors, poor grammar, or are addressed to a different organization entirely. Probably 85% of cover letters I see do no harm; most of the rest hurt the candidate. The way you’re describing a cover letter sounds like it would be beneficial, but I don’t see ones like that very often. I definitely would appreciate that you took the time to tailor it to us.
My advice for everyone is, if you’re going to write a cover letter, proofread it just like the resume. If you’re short on time, focus on the resume and skip the cover letter (if you can - they might be required for some applications). I definitely notice a sloppy cover letter, so not having a cover letter will hurt far, far less than a sloppy one.
I wouldn’t toss someone’s application just because their cover letter had a typographical error in it, especially if the candidate is otherwise well qualified. But, if I’m borderline on whether I want to interview someone, and the cover letter is sloppy, I’m probably going to pass. We’re pretty detail-oriented, and a sloppy cover letter makes me worry about the details.
To me, I don’t understand why someone would proofread their resume but not their cover letter.
Then again, I’d be someone that would put in the same degree of effort to the resume as the cover letter. Not everyone is like that.
Guess it just depends on if you find it worthwhile or not. If you can’t seem to land jobs following interview after interview, it might be worthwhile to look into cover letters if only to help you orient yourself better to the job and company.
To me, I don’t understand why someone would proofread their resume but not their cover letter.
Yeah, I hear that…but you’d be surprised at how often I see perfectly-rendered resumes, and then multiple obvious issues in a cover letter.
The cover letter helps you get the interview - after I make the decision (offer or not), I pretty much forget about the cover letter.
I think cover letters are still absolutely relevant to the job process.
Nope.
Great dialogue!
You’re welcome.
I couldn’t count the number of people I’ve interviewed, but I can tell you that I’ve read exactly zero cover letters.
Again, part of my argument in favor of cover letters is that they help the candidate better prepare for the (sometimes multiple) interview process. They can help a candidate distill the main reasons as to why they want the job, which can make conversation easier if you’re more comfortable speaking to those more personal things.
Again, the candidate can keep that to themselves.
Nobody in my industry bothers to read them. You’d be lucky if they spend more than a minute on the resume so they’re a waste of time.
Some organizations in my industry require them, so guess it depends.
Regardless of if it’s required, however, I would still argue that it’s good even if you don’t have to send it to the company. To me, it helps me put my head in the right mindspace to argue for myself and make a case that I’m the person for them.
Is your industry the 1950s?
My industry is STEM?
Why are you asking me? Also, that’s not an industry.
As someone from outside the US, I have no clue wtf is a cover letter, this isn’t a thing in Brazil, you just send your resume.
It’s totally a thing here too. I’ve been asked for one when I apply for a job.
It isn’t a thing in the US anymore either.
I’m Australian and was always told the cover letter was unnecessary, especially if your CV has a bio.
The cover letter was for additional information not covered by the resume - name dropping the manager at the company you know who inspired you to apply, explaining why it appears your changing industries, justifying “overqualifications”, mentioning a personal hobby that’s relevant to the industry and isn’t technical work experience.
Basically the things you plan to bring up in the interview to wow them, you can introduce them while introducing yourself in a cover letter.
But if your resume lines up with the position description, you don’t need a cover letter.
Basically I was told a cover letter is necessary when you’re a burnt out nurse or teacher applying to be a cashier at kmart to avoid having your resume immediately thrown out.
That said. I’ve literally never written one, even as a serial industry hopper. If there’s no email address to send my resume too, then the system is too auto for a cover letter and they don’t want to read it anyway, if there is an email address, just include a few lines of a short cover letter in the body text of the email before attaching your resume.
That’s how plants do it. For a billion years. Must be the best strategy.
Also semen
Bcc everyone
Tried both, tried a normal resume and a resume with an ATS-focused layout, tried AI-based tools meant to help you improve your resume, and a few other things, and after more than forty applications in six months, what finally got me an interview and then very quickly an offer was an internal referral from a friend/ex-coworker. For context, I am a software engineer.
Fun fact: the average response time after submitting an application was 48 days.
Same here. I changed my LinkedIn status and a former coworker pinged me and said he set up a Discord for other job seekers. I joined and posted my skills and desired role and he forwarded my resume to his employer because they were in the early stages of finding someone for that role.
After a week of interviews I had a new job. Of the 60 or so applications I sent to similar roles during that week only about half replied, and all of those were rejections.
and after more than forty applications in six months
That’s not “spray and pray”
I just started a job search yesterday and I’m already at about 40 applications. My job search before this one I went from search start to offer in ~2 weeks w/ ~200 applications in, all manual. Though my industry is IT, so I do have a bit of flexibility as far as roles go, but still 6 applications/month is a bit on the low side IMO
Yeah usually I send like 40 or applications each week. I imagine if you are in a specific field then it’s a lot harder to do the spray and pray method tho
It really depends what job it is.
Yeah, as I’m going to move across my country I’m basically calling on everyone I know to give me references there. I figure it’s time that my extroversion help me instead of hurting me like usual
LPT for all of you job seekers.
You’re my hero
Oooh, my partner is working on his resume; I’m going to share this with him. Thanks!
It lets you share as a link and you can self host.
Why is this good? Not being negative, just want to understand.
Easy to customize and have multiples with similar information in different layouts, easily tailor the same experiences to focus on specific types of positions, share your resume as a LI k, self hosted option with docker, etc.
Its really quite nice. I host my own.
Nice.
Wait, is this live action Boimler?
Oh shit, it is!
It’s from Strange New Worlds.
Apparently I’ll need to watch that soon!
This sounds too good to be true. What’s the catch?
Overview
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It’s available in multiple languages and comes packed with features such as real-time editing, dozens of templates, drag-and-drop customisation, and integration with OpenAI for enhancing your writing.
You can share a personalised link of your resume to potential employers, track its views or downloads, and customise your page layout by dragging-and-dropping sections. The platform also supports various font options and provides dozens of templates to choose from. And yes, there’s even a dark mode for a more comfortable viewing experience.
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One Lemmy gold for you, thank you kind stranger!
Holy shit I love it
I’m a huge Motörhead fan. Sorry, this one is cute, but the other one is better.
Good! Don’t make art for me. Make it for yourself! If you love it, so will others! :D
I was really hoping they offered a self hosting option.
Had one guy apply for a job in my field saying “My experiences in different field> will help me as <job title>.”
There is very little overlap in hard skills (soft ones obviously do help). Not like that matters a whole lot - their actual list of past jobs and skills would have landed them an interview at least, because we already expect it to be a learn-as-you-go type of deal. Bro would have been better off leaving it out and I would have just assumed they’re trying to strike out in a different direction.
(I told HR to invite them for an interview anyway, because fuck cover letters - I’m not gonna hold anyone to a higher standard there than I’d like to be held to)
I stan bottom sentiment.
Unless something really good comes up yeah. Also most of the time I just put my generic CV up and get calls from recruiters. So the actual people hiring don’t even see my CV
In biology, the top one is called K-strategy and the bottom one R-strategy.
Both are valid strategies.But generally, K is better suited for highly developed, intelligent, cooperative and social animals.
R is better suited for animals that live alone in a hostile environment full of predators.There’s a message about the modern job market in here somewhere I guess.
This sorta applies to the way I typically do it (maybe). I spray-and-pray on 9+ out of 10, because most are mass-posted bullshit. I’m not redoing a cover letter for every bullshit posting.
But if it is clear an actual person is involved (e.g. there is a person’s e-mail listed as a direct point-of-contact or it’s on a small company’s website among only a handful of positions) and/or it is for a job I think I’d really like, I spend more time tailoring everything.
Best of both worlds (potentially).
Yeah, that’s the approach I use too. Eventually I’ll have 2-3 versions of my resume/CV, and a file of typical paragraphs to put in a cover letter. Ideally I’ll have some kind of connection to the company, like: “in a conversation with (Name) at (conference), I learned of your work in (whatever)” or “I am familiar with (product/process) from applying it to my work on (previous work).” Whenever I’m hiring, that sort of cover letter tells me that at least they’ve taken the time to learn about the company, so it’s less likely a waste of time to interview them.
This interests me as I recently started reading Mutual Aid: A Factor in Evolution, by Piotr Kropotkin, and the beginning of the book is all about how “survival of the fittest” does not necessarily mean constant competition. But that species that evolve to cooperate (either intra- or inter-species) tend to do just as well, if not better. I love hearing that the biology actually backs that up.
Evolution is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented processes in nature.
Here’s some bullet points:- Humans haven’t evolved “higher” or “more” than earthworms, or roaches, or wheat, or yeast. (All these organisms have evolved for the same amount of time, with a similar number of mutations, but in different environments.)
- Intelligence isn’t the end goal, or indeed a goal at all, of evolution. (Evolution is a process which has no direction, and no goal.)
- Humans aren’t the most successful organism on earth by literally any biological metric. (And “evolutionary success” is a meaningless metric that is only used by humans.)
- “Survival of the fittest” has nothing to do with strength. (It doesn’t mean fitness as in fitness center, but fitness as in “can I fit in this ecological niche?”)
- Pretty much every organism we’ve studied lives in a symbiotic relationship with others. (Humans, from a purely biological standpoint, live in a symbiotic relationship with their gut microbiome, wheat, rice, corn, …, livestock, horses, cats, dogs, honey bees… A symbiosis from a purely biological standpoint means: both species have a better chance to reproduce and spread due to their relationship)
Social darwinism:
❌️: Ayn Raid libertarism.
✔️: Kropotnik mutualism.
Lol as someone from biomedical sciences I thought you were speaking about applications in the broad field of biology/biological sciences. I was so excited to ask you about what companies would accept an “R strategy” application because fuck this, even for a technical assistant job I need a fucking tailored cover letter every single time because otherwise my application doesn’t even land on anyone’s desk.
In my experience bio-med jobs are more about who you know until you can show them what you know.
When you’re an R-strategy being in a K-selection environment. 😔
Neither approach is good if you are looking for work in the tech sector without an existing referral network.
I suggest that you;
- Ditch the cover letter
- Have a bulleted summary of your skill set that lists every skill and every technology you are comfortable with right on the first page
- In your experience, when listing your past jobs and positions, include list of every technology you worked with during your time there
- Customize your resume for every position by simply highlighting or emboldening every instance of the key technologies they are looking for in your resume
Note: Sometimes, when highlighting skills you might notice that your resume undersells your experience with that particular technology. Go ahead and edit it. This happens a lot and it is ok to view your resume as a living document that is constantly being revised. Don’t just set it and forget it.
So how is that working out for you? Genuinely curious.
It worked fine for me, I’ve landed three jobs that way. That was a while ago though, the last time was in 2017. My last two jobs I took because I had some connections call out of the blue. I’ve been very fortunate in that regard. I can’t imagine that would happen again, most of my connections are getting close to retirement age at this point.
For my industry, IT, pretty well. A nice upward career trajectory and an average of about a month from search start to offer over the past couple of jobs
