So how many days do you take a year? As the other comments also touch upon, it becomes an outperform thing with co- workers, to take the least amount to “perform better”. Also how easy and often do managers then deny requests?
With a fixed set it has an actual value, at the company they can’t deny PTO’s as they are yours. Of course planning comes into play a little bit, but if you let the company know that 2 months from now you take 4 weeks off for a good long summer holiday, that is what you will be doing then in those 2 months.
ps. I have 25 personal paid days, a bunch of public holidays. Doctor’s appointments are on the ‘please try to schedule them outside working hours if possible, otherwise, well, that’s life, you need to visit that doctor’. Full travel reimbursement (fixed amount per month, can spend however i want), A lot of secondary items in my contract as well dealing with having to take care of partner / children if they become sick (is paid time off), etc etc.
I do not take as much as I should. 5 weeks last year? For doctor’s appointments and stuff like that though, no one cares. You just let your boss and your team know. I am on salary, not contract.
i think that’s really the point - unlimited isn’t actually unlimited. unlimited means unspoken, and often variable limits based on the mood of managers
15 days is the limit at my job that you only get after 7 years working here. Seeing comments like this make me sad… Happy for you for sure, but sad for me cuz Murica’…
okay but that’s kinda the point… unlimited leave isn’t really that because nobody ever takes that leave… it’s not your fault: it’s literally designed to make you think it’s your fault… if you decided to take 2mo PTO i guarantee your PTO would suddenly not be PTO
I’ve never experienced it but the somewhat obvious trick is that it turns into a race to the bottom, where if you want to outperform your peers (or even meet the expectations of the company), the number of days off you freely decided to take turns into a KPI.
So, people take even less days off when they are made free to take any amount.
It’s why in Italy, for example, you can not refuse to go to holiday.
By making it “unlimited” they don’t need to pay you out of you don’t use all of PTO days.
If you use it more than they think you’ve earned you get terminated.
Employees end up afraid of taking their PTO days and typically end up taking even less time off than if they knew there was a expectation of 3 weeks or whatever.
It depends on the jurisdiction, but in most cases if you have a salaried position with say 3 weeks of PTO but you only take 2 weeks of it. The employer is usually required to pay you over and above your salary for working during your “vacation time”.
If there’s an unlimited PTO policy, they don’t have an obligation to pay you extra for working during vacation time.
I have unlimited and I’ve seen a few people take 2 weeks off consecutively. So it seems like the company is pretty flexible and doesn’t put artificial limitations on it. That said, I’m pretty sure even a month off wouldn’t fix the damage that’s been done to my brain from years stacked upon years of redlining it to write code and solve problems. I find as I get older I need more time off to truly disconnect.
American. I’m one of the lucky few who have unlimited PTO. I’m seriously underpaid though.
So how many days do you take a year? As the other comments also touch upon, it becomes an outperform thing with co- workers, to take the least amount to “perform better”. Also how easy and often do managers then deny requests?
With a fixed set it has an actual value, at the company they can’t deny PTO’s as they are yours. Of course planning comes into play a little bit, but if you let the company know that 2 months from now you take 4 weeks off for a good long summer holiday, that is what you will be doing then in those 2 months.
ps. I have 25 personal paid days, a bunch of public holidays. Doctor’s appointments are on the ‘please try to schedule them outside working hours if possible, otherwise, well, that’s life, you need to visit that doctor’. Full travel reimbursement (fixed amount per month, can spend however i want), A lot of secondary items in my contract as well dealing with having to take care of partner / children if they become sick (is paid time off), etc etc.
I do not take as much as I should. 5 weeks last year? For doctor’s appointments and stuff like that though, no one cares. You just let your boss and your team know. I am on salary, not contract.
i think that’s really the point - unlimited isn’t actually unlimited. unlimited means unspoken, and often variable limits based on the mood of managers
5 weeks is… pretty minimal
15 days is the limit at my job that you only get after 7 years working here. Seeing comments like this make me sad… Happy for you for sure, but sad for me cuz Murica’…
i guess the point is not to brag - it’s to rattle the cage and yell “THIS IS NOT NORMAL” and “IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS”
… there are lots of americans that just consider what they experience as normal, and that’s absolutely not normal for similarly privileged countries
… then you unionise and this forms part of your demands ;)
I have never been turned down for PTO in 7 years at this company, for what it’s worth. I just don’t take enough vacation. It’s my own fault.
okay but that’s kinda the point… unlimited leave isn’t really that because nobody ever takes that leave… it’s not your fault: it’s literally designed to make you think it’s your fault… if you decided to take 2mo PTO i guarantee your PTO would suddenly not be PTO
Is that really a thing? I’ve seen it in a few job offers but I have trouble understanding how it works…
As I understand it you can take as many days as you want and it works on the company’s trust, but that system sounds really toxic to me, isn’t it?
Edit: I’m European with almost 7 weeks off a year for context
I’ve never experienced it but the somewhat obvious trick is that it turns into a race to the bottom, where if you want to outperform your peers (or even meet the expectations of the company), the number of days off you freely decided to take turns into a KPI.
So, people take even less days off when they are made free to take any amount.
It’s why in Italy, for example, you can not refuse to go to holiday.
It’s a lie.
By making it “unlimited” they don’t need to pay you out of you don’t use all of PTO days.
If you use it more than they think you’ve earned you get terminated.
Employees end up afraid of taking their PTO days and typically end up taking even less time off than if they knew there was a expectation of 3 weeks or whatever.
I don’t think payout is a factor for salaried positions
It depends on the jurisdiction, but in most cases if you have a salaried position with say 3 weeks of PTO but you only take 2 weeks of it. The employer is usually required to pay you over and above your salary for working during your “vacation time”.
If there’s an unlimited PTO policy, they don’t have an obligation to pay you extra for working during vacation time.
I have unlimited and I’ve seen a few people take 2 weeks off consecutively. So it seems like the company is pretty flexible and doesn’t put artificial limitations on it. That said, I’m pretty sure even a month off wouldn’t fix the damage that’s been done to my brain from years stacked upon years of redlining it to write code and solve problems. I find as I get older I need more time off to truly disconnect.