the context that lead to the statement being made in the first place. You can think about it a little bit like crypto. Unless you have what was used to construct it, you cannot deconstruct it, or at the very least, you have no guarantee of being able to deconstruct it effectively. (yes technically pub key is a little different here but for all intents and purposes it works the exact same so)
Can you give me some specific examples? It would help me understand.
i provided one in the above statement which was a very literal interpretation of that statement, which quite literally interprets the fact that your feelings sometimes provide negative influence to your perceived safety. To use a specific example here, you may have a fear of heights, which leads to you feeling “unsafe” at heights, even though it’s a psychological adaptation that you have causing it. Although in that case it’s pretty well understood to be a psychological adaptation of something, so that’s not a common thing.
Which is fine. English is a very imperfect language (most languages are, but that is the best we have). Most of the people are wrong most of the time, including me.
yeah, and this is why i try to be pretty specific about things when i talk about them, or at least specific enough to provide base information, because if i were fully specific, i would be there for hours.
My baseline test for whether something is too vague, is if you couldn’t inform someone of something with that statement. If you say a statement and someone goes “yeah no i don’t get that” it’s probably too vague. In this specific example, the way the meme in the image is worded is basically perfect. I don’t think you could really do a better job there, it’s missing the bear context, but frankly, i don’t think that’s needed given how specific that statement is. You don’t always need context in statements, sometimes it’s situational like in this case, and other times you just can’t be bothered. But then you also need to be ready to explain it, because people aren’t going to understand it.
but bringing it down to something like “safety is more important than feelings” is so inherently vague that unless it’s directly referenced to this meme, it has basically no meaning. Considering that we’re in this thread, probably not a huge issue. But my concern would be people using it outside of this thread, because of it’s short and concise nature. Which could very easily lead to a very messy/confusing thread.
the context that lead to the statement being made in the first place.
But I don’t think that context is necessary to agree/disagree with the statement. What context could men’s feelings be more important that women’s safety?
i provided one in the above statement which was a very literal interpretation of that statement, which quite literally interprets the fact that your feelings sometimes provide negative influence to your perceived safety. To use a specific example here, you may have a fear of heights, which leads to you feeling “unsafe” at heights, even though it’s a psychological adaptation that you have causing it. Although in that case it’s pretty well understood to be a psychological adaptation of something, so that’s not a common thing.
Sorry, I was expecting something worded like “I feel less safe up high because I am afraid of heights so how can feelings be less important than safety”, so I didn’t catch your example.
Yeah, I think that someone could interpret it like that. But I feel like you could pretty easily explain that feeling safe and being actually safe are not the same things. Someone who is confused can easily be caught up and someone who is being malicious would have a hard time not looking silly. I feel like this level of confusion would have a pretty low occurrence count. So I feel like this specific confusion would be a reasonable risk.
If you say a statement and someone goes “yeah no i don’t get that”
My issue with this is that depends on the people joining the conversation. Also depends on how malicious they are. Like if someone didn’t know what “safety” meant. You can solve this by copy-pasting the dictionary definition of “safety”, but then then the next person who joins might not understand the concept of feelings, or not understand some of the words in the definition of “safety”. This is a never ending task.
I think a better way is to target a specific audience. You will lose people outside of that target, but that is unavoidable and will happen with any strategy. Hopefully some of them ask questions or for clarifications, so your message can spread to those groups. I think it is important to be as inclusive as you can be. But most people on here (including me) are doing this in their spare time. So it’s not like we have much flexibility to improve things.
That all being said, I think this meme was well targeted and effective. Did we solve the problem, no, that was never possible to begin with. But we did provide nice discussion about it. We let the extremists show off how silly they were. We let confused people ask questions and get answers. We gave the general public a good showing so they can decide what is right and wrong.
bringing it down to something like “safety is more important than feelings” is so inherently vague
In my mind this is as vague as the original post when it comes to the truth of the statement. The only difference is adding genders which doesn’t affect the meaning of the statement.
the context that lead to the statement being made in the first place. You can think about it a little bit like crypto. Unless you have what was used to construct it, you cannot deconstruct it, or at the very least, you have no guarantee of being able to deconstruct it effectively. (yes technically pub key is a little different here but for all intents and purposes it works the exact same so)
i provided one in the above statement which was a very literal interpretation of that statement, which quite literally interprets the fact that your feelings sometimes provide negative influence to your perceived safety. To use a specific example here, you may have a fear of heights, which leads to you feeling “unsafe” at heights, even though it’s a psychological adaptation that you have causing it. Although in that case it’s pretty well understood to be a psychological adaptation of something, so that’s not a common thing.
yeah, and this is why i try to be pretty specific about things when i talk about them, or at least specific enough to provide base information, because if i were fully specific, i would be there for hours.
My baseline test for whether something is too vague, is if you couldn’t inform someone of something with that statement. If you say a statement and someone goes “yeah no i don’t get that” it’s probably too vague. In this specific example, the way the meme in the image is worded is basically perfect. I don’t think you could really do a better job there, it’s missing the bear context, but frankly, i don’t think that’s needed given how specific that statement is. You don’t always need context in statements, sometimes it’s situational like in this case, and other times you just can’t be bothered. But then you also need to be ready to explain it, because people aren’t going to understand it.
but bringing it down to something like “safety is more important than feelings” is so inherently vague that unless it’s directly referenced to this meme, it has basically no meaning. Considering that we’re in this thread, probably not a huge issue. But my concern would be people using it outside of this thread, because of it’s short and concise nature. Which could very easily lead to a very messy/confusing thread.
But I don’t think that context is necessary to agree/disagree with the statement. What context could men’s feelings be more important that women’s safety?
Sorry, I was expecting something worded like “I feel less safe up high because I am afraid of heights so how can feelings be less important than safety”, so I didn’t catch your example.
Yeah, I think that someone could interpret it like that. But I feel like you could pretty easily explain that feeling safe and being actually safe are not the same things. Someone who is confused can easily be caught up and someone who is being malicious would have a hard time not looking silly. I feel like this level of confusion would have a pretty low occurrence count. So I feel like this specific confusion would be a reasonable risk.
My issue with this is that depends on the people joining the conversation. Also depends on how malicious they are. Like if someone didn’t know what “safety” meant. You can solve this by copy-pasting the dictionary definition of “safety”, but then then the next person who joins might not understand the concept of feelings, or not understand some of the words in the definition of “safety”. This is a never ending task.
I think a better way is to target a specific audience. You will lose people outside of that target, but that is unavoidable and will happen with any strategy. Hopefully some of them ask questions or for clarifications, so your message can spread to those groups. I think it is important to be as inclusive as you can be. But most people on here (including me) are doing this in their spare time. So it’s not like we have much flexibility to improve things.
That all being said, I think this meme was well targeted and effective. Did we solve the problem, no, that was never possible to begin with. But we did provide nice discussion about it. We let the extremists show off how silly they were. We let confused people ask questions and get answers. We gave the general public a good showing so they can decide what is right and wrong.
In my mind this is as vague as the original post when it comes to the truth of the statement. The only difference is adding genders which doesn’t affect the meaning of the statement.