TIL fascism is when abortion is banned, and not when systems are put in place to enforce single party rule and violent suppression of political dissent.
It can be, but fascism is extremely malleable as a template and can absolutely not give a shit about abortion (or even actively encourage/enforce it like china during the one child policy) or any other specific individual freedom.
The ones it really cares about are the ones that allow you to dissent and work against the government, so speech and association.
Fascism is fundamentally authoritarian first; specific social and economic prescriptions are tuned as the party/dictator deem necessary.
That’s how you can have red fascism like China and Stalinist Russia, and capitalist fascism like Pinochet’s Chile.
The US is never going to properly address its issues until it properly identifies them.
What you’re dealing with is not fascism imposed from the top down, it’s puritanism endorsed at all strata of society by a significant amount of people who genuinely co-sign it, either because they don’t understand the repercussions or because they genuinely don’t care.
If you’re incapable of understanding that people in those states genuinely support banning abortion, for example, and are not actually being oppressed by a minority of powerful people who are denying them their rights, but are instead actively signing away those rights for the minority who want to keep them, you’re never going to be able to effectively change this state of affairs.
My surviving jewish family were freed from a nazi death camp by the people you call fascists. Equating the two is holocaust trivialization and antisemitic. I literally link you to a well known mainstream Jewish historian and activist about this issue. Do you think David Katz is a “tankie”?
You call me scum equivalent to a nazi in response. Have words lost all meaning to you?
Oh my god there was antisemitism in the USSR, even among some leadership! Several doctors got killed!
You’re right, a few incidences of antisemitism are the same as the holocaust, or the pogroms that the pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies engaged in. Or the antisemitism in the post soviet union liberal democracies. /s
You are a deeply unserious person. And a holocaust trivializer if it “owns the tankies” apparently. Great priorities.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies
Please fucking what liberal democracies during Tsarist times? England, France, possibly, am I missing one? And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff? The country most busy with fucking with Tsarist Russia, specifically sending Lenin over mind you, was Germany, very much not a liberal democracy. The age of liberal democracies started after WWI.
whose academic background has fuckall to do with history since he’s a fucking philologist.
Dude, don’t do philology dirty like that. They’re reading dusty old tomes all day long and you need a lot of historical knowledge to make proper sense of them. We couldn’t read hieroglyphics without their work, and their extrapolations have been proven by Hittite (which was discovered after the reconstruction of proto-Indo-European and looks exactly as expected). The two disciplines feed into each other. Dr. Daniel Jackson is a philologist and at least as cool as Indiana Jones and do I need to mention J.R.R. Tolkien.
Being genocidal and being exceptionally genocidal both earn you a one way ticket to “shoot on sight” land in my book, debating which one is worse is thoroughly pointless from a moral standpoint and a red herring from a political science standpoint as being a fascist does not require a kill count (though it usually predicts a pretty fucking high one.)
Okay, so people who support liberal “democracies” like the US currently backing genocide should be shot on sight then? Or just the governments responsible?
The problem with “those genocidal communists” is that liberal democracies are significantly more genocidal. You want to go with the least bad system.
Take the notion that man-made famine counts as genocide. 8 million people starve under the capitalist world order every year.
Nazi Germany actually had a more liberal view of abortion than the laws that a lot of Republican states are now passing (for reasons that you can probably imagine, but still)
Nazi Germany isn’t the only form of fascism, and had other individual freedoms even more restricted. Nazi Germany was a far-right, reactionary state that violently suppressed Workers and stripped their freedoms, just like American conservatives are attempting to do and are working towards.
The Nazi stance on abortion wasn’t “liberal”, that’s ludicrous. It ranged from being forbidden for parents of German blood to encouraged or even forced in other cases, it was all about their ideas of racial hygiene. Not even the GOP is that racist, or can you imagine them mandating abortions for mixed-race couples?
The only case where this might be true is even the ban on abortion for German couples did not mean a ban on abortions in medical cases. German (not just Nazi) law generally considers it, as is proper, self-defence. Honestly I don’t think a legal system which doesn’t consider it such can consider itself a legal system at all, Radbruch and everything.
TIL fascism is when abortion is banned, and not when systems are put in place to enforce single party rule and violent suppression of political dissent.
All of those are aspects of fascism. Restricting individual freedoms is a core part of fascism.
Not really, no.
It can be, but fascism is extremely malleable as a template and can absolutely not give a shit about abortion (or even actively encourage/enforce it like china during the one child policy) or any other specific individual freedom.
The ones it really cares about are the ones that allow you to dissent and work against the government, so speech and association.
Fascism is fundamentally authoritarian first; specific social and economic prescriptions are tuned as the party/dictator deem necessary.
That’s how you can have red fascism like China and Stalinist Russia, and capitalist fascism like Pinochet’s Chile.
The US is never going to properly address its issues until it properly identifies them.
What you’re dealing with is not fascism imposed from the top down, it’s puritanism endorsed at all strata of society by a significant amount of people who genuinely co-sign it, either because they don’t understand the repercussions or because they genuinely don’t care.
If you’re incapable of understanding that people in those states genuinely support banning abortion, for example, and are not actually being oppressed by a minority of powerful people who are denying them their rights, but are instead actively signing away those rights for the minority who want to keep them, you’re never going to be able to effectively change this state of affairs.
Sad to see you got some downvotes, your takes here are very technically correct and aware of the big picture and actual facts of the mechanisms.
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I hate having to tap the “calling the USSR or other AES states fascist is antisemitic” sign
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
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My surviving jewish family were freed from a nazi death camp by the people you call fascists. Equating the two is holocaust trivialization and antisemitic. I literally link you to a well known mainstream Jewish historian and activist about this issue. Do you think David Katz is a “tankie”?
You call me scum equivalent to a nazi in response. Have words lost all meaning to you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union
Oh my god there was antisemitism in the USSR, even among some leadership! Several doctors got killed!
You’re right, a few incidences of antisemitism are the same as the holocaust, or the pogroms that the pre-soviet monarchy backed by western liberal democracies engaged in. Or the antisemitism in the post soviet union liberal democracies. /s
You are a deeply unserious person. And a holocaust trivializer if it “owns the tankies” apparently. Great priorities.
Can you point me to the exact sentence where I trivialised the holocaust? Hint: I didn’t say anything about the holocaust. All I gave you is a link, the rest is your imagination.
You, OTOH, are severely trivialising antisemitism within the USSR. Stop fucking fanboying.
Please fucking what liberal democracies during Tsarist times? England, France, possibly, am I missing one? And none of that antisemitism was home-grown, it was all the fault of those evil foreigners making poor Russian nobles and priests do stuff? The country most busy with fucking with Tsarist Russia, specifically sending Lenin over mind you, was Germany, very much not a liberal democracy. The age of liberal democracies started after WWI.
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I completely agree with your gist but
Dude, don’t do philology dirty like that. They’re reading dusty old tomes all day long and you need a lot of historical knowledge to make proper sense of them. We couldn’t read hieroglyphics without their work, and their extrapolations have been proven by Hittite (which was discovered after the reconstruction of proto-Indo-European and looks exactly as expected). The two disciplines feed into each other. Dr. Daniel Jackson is a philologist and at least as cool as Indiana Jones and do I need to mention J.R.R. Tolkien.
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Okay, so people who support liberal “democracies” like the US currently backing genocide should be shot on sight then? Or just the governments responsible?
The problem with “those genocidal communists” is that liberal democracies are significantly more genocidal. You want to go with the least bad system.
Take the notion that man-made famine counts as genocide. 8 million people starve under the capitalist world order every year.
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Nazi Germany actually had a more liberal view of abortion than the laws that a lot of Republican states are now passing (for reasons that you can probably imagine, but still)
Nazi Germany isn’t the only form of fascism, and had other individual freedoms even more restricted. Nazi Germany was a far-right, reactionary state that violently suppressed Workers and stripped their freedoms, just like American conservatives are attempting to do and are working towards.
How liberal was their view of social equality in regards to varying races?
You DO see how disingenuous your example is, right?
The Nazi stance on abortion wasn’t “liberal”, that’s ludicrous. It ranged from being forbidden for parents of German blood to encouraged or even forced in other cases, it was all about their ideas of racial hygiene. Not even the GOP is that racist, or can you imagine them mandating abortions for mixed-race couples?
The only case where this might be true is even the ban on abortion for German couples did not mean a ban on abortions in medical cases. German (not just Nazi) law generally considers it, as is proper, self-defence. Honestly I don’t think a legal system which doesn’t consider it such can consider itself a legal system at all, Radbruch and everything.