• ExLisper@linux.community
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    11 months ago

    I think so far this is what people wanted: end the status quo and apply shock therapy.

    His supporters hope that in the long run the economy will become independent and the country would come out of the never ending crisis. My guess is that everything will simply end up owned by private interests and while (best case scenario) the economy will do better, people will suffer even more.

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      The Argentinian economy will not do better, only the wealth of the neocolonial compradors will, and the wealth of their Global North capitalist masters.

    • sock@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      ugh welcome to earth where the only way to have a healthy “economy” is for people to suffer. but we cant seem to just live in peace and help eachother out without monetary benefits. so people are forced to suffer because of greedy bastards.

      LETS GO WE NAILED IT GUYS

    • naeap@sopuli.xyz
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      11 months ago

      Yeah, because Friedman’s free market shock doctrine shit just isn’t working.

      Free market regulating itself is the next bullshit argument

    • stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      They privatized many of the highways and you have to pass through toll booths every so often as ownership changes. These people provide no service, there are just taking the money. Same with much of the transit—many buses and trains are privately (mafia) owned.

      • ExLisper@linux.community
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        11 months ago

        Well, I guess we’ll see. Currently I don’t really see how privatizing everything and opening real estate market to foreign investors helps poor children but maybe it will. My guess is that when the private corporations take over everything they will squeeze even more money out of the poor but maybe the wealth will somehow trickle down. It’s definitely an interesting experiment. My other guess is that if this fails all the libertarians will say that it’s because he implemented all the policies they like so much wrong. If he succeeds I’m definitely voting for the right wing nutjobs in the next elections.

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          11 months ago

          The historical record shows that there are no maybes about this. It’s obviously not an “interesting experiment.” There’s no sense in giving these rhetorical inches while they’re taking miles.

          • ExLisper@linux.community
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            11 months ago

            What historical record? Can you point to another country taking such a extreme turn to the right while being in similar situation? And not being met with sanctions like in Afghanistan for example. I’m genuinely curious.

            • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              11 months ago

              Can you point to another country taking such a extreme turn to the right while being in similar situation?

              While that isn’t what I was talking about, Weimer Germany is the canonical example of a similar situation, but there are many examples.

              What I was talking about is the historical record of neoliberal shock therapies, which Naomi Klein documented well.

            • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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              11 months ago

              Shock therapy in Russia after USSR breaking up, maybe?

              That was more extreme, since it was not a transition from left-wing liberal democracy to right-wing liberal democracy, but from bureaucratic planned economy to a pretense at liberal democracy.

              Still some examples may apply.

              Say, if things state-owned or state-managed in Argentina now get privatized, one can look at the specific mechanism and whether it’ll be similar to what happened in Russia.

        • merc@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          I guess the right wing theory is that the president makes Argentina a great place to do business, business people rush in, and wealth trickles down.

          But, that “trickle down” idea doesn’t ever seem to have actually worked anywhere. Maybe the best Argentina can hope for is that at one point when the economy is booming, the working people suddenly form or join unions and the companies decide it’s too risky / expensive to leave, so they negotiate with those unions.

          OTOH, these days it’s so easy to move corporations around to wherever the laws are the most corporation-friendly. So, even if somehow the new president does make corporations want to do more business in Argentina, it’s hard to see how the people of Argentina will really benefit.

          • ExLisper@linux.community
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            11 months ago

            I would agree if Argentina wasn’t so fucked right now. The goal is not to make Argentina great but to get out of crisis. I think what can happen is that all this drastic cuts and price hikes will lower inflation and stabilize the economy. With inflation under control and normal interest rates people will be able to start saving money again, take out mortgages and import goods. This could improve their situation if public services survive but my guess is they will end up fully owned by foreign capital at the end.

            • merc@sh.itjust.works
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              11 months ago

              I think what can happen is that all this drastic cuts and price hikes will lower inflation and stabilize the economy

              It might, or it might not. The thing with inflation is that it’s based on people’s expectations as much as anything else. People have to believe that inflation will go away before it goes away.

              The new president has one thing going for him, which is that he’s not a continuation of the previous administration. That means there’s a chance that people will believe that he’s actually making serious reforms. If they’d stuck with a prime minister who was the finance minister when the inflation was going nuts, I don’t think anybody would have believed that things were going to improve, which meant they wouldn’t improve.

          • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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            11 months ago

            But, that “trickle down” idea doesn’t ever seem to have actually worked anywhere.

            If you look at Switzerland, it does, just takes long.

            • merc@sh.itjust.works
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              11 months ago

              That’s not what’s happening in Switzerland. Switzerland just has a weird niche as a tax haven.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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          11 months ago

          If he succeeds I’m definitely voting for the right wing nutjobs in the next elections.

          Uh, I saved this comment of yours for that one sentence.

          My views are rather libertarian, but I wouldn’t trust most of the real life libertarians (too trusting into thousands of shitcoins or excited with reading sci-fi and busy writing and discussing articles about mechanisms of anarchy in the ancap meaning of the word).

          However, if it comes to you voting for the “right wing nutjobs”, please remember that GOP in USA is not libertarian in any way, no more than Ukraine’s ruling party which uses the word sometimes.

          • ExLisper@linux.community
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            11 months ago

            I don’t live in USA. I would be voting for Konfederacja in Poland which has similar, libertarian ideas as Milei. They are always dismissed as idiots (and I tend to agree) but if Milei fixes Argentina I’m ready to eat crow and give them a chance.

            • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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              11 months ago

              Well, for the next 10-20 years I doubt I’ll have the option of participating in a real vote, not without a revolution. So wishing you well and wishing Argentinians well, what is described should work in theory, but it’s just too sharp a turn.

            • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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              11 months ago

              I would be voting for Konfederacja in Poland which has similar, libertarian ideas as Milei.

              They are in a solid chummy political party with neonazis and monarchists for years. This alone should tell you what kind of libertarians they really are.

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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          11 months ago

          how privatizing everything and opening real estate market to foreign investors helps poor children

          the wealth will somehow trickle down

          Spoiler alert: it never did.

  • IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social
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    11 months ago

    He did say he would apply shock therapy to the economy. He never mentioned if the economy would come out alive.

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      The poor are kept poor by being unable to even buy a pc… 200% import tax on electronics is the WORSE YOU CAN DO TO NORMAL PEOPLE.

    • Ddhuud@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Because inflation has absolutely no bearing on poor people’s silver linings.

  • Gabu@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    Who could’ve guessed that a rightwing government wouldn’t solve their issues (which were originally caused by rightwing policies)?

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      No, you are lying. Argentinas problems do not originate from right wing policies but from over protectionism

      • Gabu@lemmy.ml
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        11 months ago

        The implosion of Argentina is a very complex issue, but, essentially, the country allowed itself to be informally dollarized and ceded control over most of its industries to international (read corporativist) interests. When Perón restructured the country, it was done with a limited scope and with relatively short term changes, causing their economy to collapse again later (it doesn’t help that Brazil, a powerful potential ally, had undergone a rightwing U.S.-backed coup at the time). Then, the whole Falklands/Malvinas war happened, all rightwing bullshit, and the country still hasn’t bounced back.

        • driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br
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          11 months ago

          Don’t forget that every time a right-wing government get to power, they open up a new credit line with the IMF and leave the next government and the population on debt.

        • stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml
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          11 months ago

          You just reminded me of an art display that went up in a park in Buenos Aires when I lived there. Basically the park is oriented around a fountain with a large circular area of brick around that, then pathways that go to the corners and sides of the square (ie to the sidewalks).

          They put up a series of walls in that outer circle that told the story of the Malvinas conflict. What stood out to me was that they referred to the UK not by any name or country reference, they were just called “The Enemy”.

          People remember and they don’t forgive.

          • Gabu@lemmy.ml
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            11 months ago

            Always take that sort of thing with a grain of salt. The UK is by no means innocent, but Argentina had no real claim to the Falklands - they were the invaders. Can’t really forgive others for a crime you committed.

  • stirner@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    Who would’ve known, the man that made it so people can get their salary in jugs of milk is a complete idiot.

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Not correct. He’s trying to undo fifteen years of lunatic tankies stealing money. The country is BANKRUPT. two times over. He’s doing his best. Even tho he has old fashioned dumb religious ideas, you do NOT know what one hundred percent inflation EACH YEAR FOR A DECADE does to people. Argentinians are now waiters in Mexico and Ecuador… They fled because of Kirchner making the country into a mud pool of corruption and freeloaders

  • moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    11 months ago

    It’s beginning to look like Venezuela but with libertarians. It’s quicker than I thought.

    • AMDIsOurLord@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      Venezueal is a locked country that’s sanctioned to hell, Argentina is about to break incompetence records not ever seen before

    • El Barto@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Hell no. For Argentina to look like Venezuela, inflation must be 100,000%. I wish I was exaggerating. 1 USD is 40 trillion of the old Venezuelan currency pre-Chavez, the one the government has cut 9 zeroes to hide inflation ever since.

      Of course, that doesn’t mean that the situation in Argentina isn’t looking dire.

    • Alsephina@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      Argentina isn’t sanctioned at all lmao. Thinking Venezuela is a failure is exactly what the US and its allies want you to think with the ridiculous amount of sanctions. Can’t have people see Socialism succeeding.

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Argentina has been doing the venezuela way for fifteen years, WHY DO YOU THINK IT’S SO BAD NOW?

      If you have never lived in a place with a DECADE of ONE HUNDRED PERCENT INFLATION PER YEAR, you should just shut up already.

      That will make EVERYONE poor. No joke!

    • stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      I lived in Argentina for five years. I’ve spent much time since then trying to convince people in the US that you have more rights and freedoms in Argentina. This might be changing now.

  • library_napper@monyet.cc
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    11 months ago

    Look, theres a lot of reasons this guy sucks.

    Increasing the costs of two things that are causing the most damange to our planet is not a reason to criticize him tho.

    • acosmichippo@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      sure it is. removing subsidies on commodities like gas doesn’t change the demand for gas, it just puts more of a burden on poor people, and doesn’t matter at all to the rich who use it most. that path will only lead to backlash against green policies in general, see the yellow vest protests. in order to reduce consumption you actually need to reduce demand by giving people sustainable alternatives.

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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        11 months ago

        Demand elasticity is a thing. Demand won’t shrink by the same ratio prices rose after removing subsidies, but it will shrink.

        Response to that I can’t predict, but there are places in the planet where prices are lower because of the general poverty of population and the need to still sell it, and places where prices are even higher, but most of the population can’t afford fuel, I can’t name.

        EDIT: This was incomprehensible, sorry. I meant that in the long term prices for the consumer are going to become closer to what they were with subsidies, likely, thus the real prices - lower. The question is how bad it gets before that happens.

    • moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      11 months ago

      This guy isn’t a climate activist. It’s funny to see the price of fuel going up with a climate denier.

  • exocortex@discuss.tchncs.de
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    11 months ago

    hopefully circumstances worsen quickly enough that it’ll be noticable for everybody so that the general public can clearly identify it as a direct consequence of this maniac being elected. If its deteriorating too slowly people might just not notice it as much and might go along with all the coming explanations ( probably immigrants, leftists, blahblah). If there’s a quick look into the abyss people might wake up and get into action.

    • deafboy@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      “He also devalued the peso by 54 percent, putting the government’s exchange rate much closer to the market’s valuation.”

      It looks like the situation was worse all this time. The government just stopped pretending.

    • ExLisper@linux.community
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      11 months ago

      If there’s a quick look into the abyss people might wake up and get into action.

      And vote for the politicians that gave them slow decline again…

      • orgrinrt@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Or, at any rate, someone else rather than this specific one giving them either the fast or the slow decline. At least there’s a chance, then, that people vote for something other than that.

        Regularly worse is still better than significantly worse.

        • ExLisper@linux.community
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          11 months ago

          The thing is, in weak democracies there’s rarely “someone else” that will fix things. Ukraine got super lucky with Zelensky but even he looked like a total crook when elected. Pretty much only populists can win elections in countries like that and it’s impossible to tell if the populist is saying populist things to get rich or to actually try fixing things. Most of the time they just want power and money and people that take the risk and vote for them have big chance of getting if more fucked.

    • stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      This is the standard political cycle in Argentina, like a giant pendulum. Someone starts screaming about how they will fix everything and gets voted in. Their incompetence makes things worse and the cycle repeats with someone new.

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Tankies love it.

      GASOLINE was soooooo cheap with subsidies. It needs to quadruple again, at the very least. REMINDER THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY CRUDE!

      Fifteen years of left wing policies printing money have left the place in literal SHAMBLES.

      The official exchange rate was half of the real one.

      That is NOW being FIXED.

      If you do NOT KNOW ANYTHING, SHUT UP PLEASE (this is meant for the other commenters, not you)

      • nyakojiru@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        11 months ago

        Finally someone that understands the real situation of my devastated homeland. Liberal or not (I don’t follow any political view, I hate them, I follow the common sense and empathy) this guy was the ONLY person with enough balls to change the devastating history and future of my loved country. I don’t know what’s going to happen, I not sure what this guy is going to do in the future, but at least he is doing something. To understand the level of crisis, that’s more than enough.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldB
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    11 months ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    Mr. Galli has been trying to cut back without making life worse for his two daughters, who are 6 years and 18 months old, including switching to a cheaper brand of diapers and racing to spend his Argentine pesos before their value disintegrates even further.

    “I prefer to tell you the uncomfortable truth rather than a comfortable lie,” he said in his inaugural address, adding this past week that he wanted to end the country’s “model of decline.”

    The economic turmoil paved the way to the presidency for Mr. Milei, a political outsider who had spent years as an economist and television pundit railing against what he called corrupt politicians who destroyed the economy, often for personal gain.

    The previous leftist government had used complicated currency controls, consumer subsidies and other measures to inflate the peso’s official value and keep several key prices artificially low, including for gas, transportation and electricity.

    With the chronic high inflation, labor unions often negotiate large raises to try to keep up, yet those wage increases are quickly eaten up by sharp price hikes.

    “I always say that we are at university, and every day we sit for a difficult exam, every five minutes,” said Roberto Nicolás Ormeño, an owner of El Gauchito, a small empanada shop in downtown Buenos Aires.


    The original article contains 1,384 words, the summary contains 216 words. Saved 84%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • LufyCZ@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Makes sense, if stuff is subsidized, the government has to pay for it. If the government doesn’t have money to pay for it, they’ll just print it out of thin air, devaluing the currency (and thus taxing the working class).

    There’s gonna be a lot of pain for Argentinians in the months and years to come, hopefully it’ll all be worth it…

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        11 months ago

        It’s worth it for the capitalist class that is buying the country’s commons at fire sale prices.

      • Ddhuud@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        No, you’re right, let’s better keep our ruler class’ pockets full. That won’t bite us in the ass.

      • LufyCZ@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Printing money is like borrowing it from the taxpayers.

        If there’s hyperinflation, it means that said loan isn’t being paid back, far from it actually.

          • LufyCZ@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Of course it wouldn’t be there, I’m not saying that the government spending money at all is bad.

            What is bad is the government spending too much money, so much that they introduce way too much money into the economy, making the rest worthless.

            Obviously it’s a combination of factors, but printing (and then introducing) a shitton of money will have very direct effects on the value of the currency.

          • SwingingKoala@discuss.tchncs.de
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            11 months ago

            There wouldn’t be any money for taxpayers to pay if the government hadn’t first printed it and spent it

            Money naturally emerges in all civilizations, you don’t need a government to centrally manage it. You lack basic economic understanding.

    • WetBeardHairs@lemmy.ml
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      11 months ago

      That is not the idea that he had in mind when devaluing the currency. Instead of respecting the international money market exchange rates for USD to the Peso, he has unilaterally declared a new value which is about half of what it was before. The idea is to make Argentinian goods and labor competitive on the international market so the country can vacuum up huge sums of money from greedy investors.

      That idea is dumb though because investors tend to want some kind of political stability. They will not just say “Oh I can build my widget for 30% cheaper in Argentina because of this money woo” - they will say “Oh, Argentina will probably seize my assets if we invest there because they’re being run by a nutjob dictator.”

      • LufyCZ@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        The black market rate was around 1000 pesos per dollar and the official was 400. They devalued it to bring it closer to the black market one.

        If the official rate meant anything, the black market one wouldn’t be so drastically different.

      • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        Instead of respecting the international money market exchange rates for USD to the Peso

        You’re completely ignoring the black market Peso : USD conversion rate, which is even lower than what Millei has shifted things to at about 1000 pesos per dollar. The aim is to try to get the rate to actually reflect reality.

  • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    I knew he was going to hurt Argentina badly, but I didn’t expect him to be this quick

    I’m so glad Argentina pulled out from BRICS+, it would have been a drain on it

    • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Brics hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Where nobody trusts each other enough to even talk about one single deal.

      China and India are almost at war. China will invade Russia as soon as they can to take back kamtsjatska (and they should) Etc

        • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          It’s clear you do not understand geo politics… Who is in the g7 with veto power? Which letters of brics?

          • تحريرها كلها ممكن@lemmy.ml
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            11 months ago

            The Security Council is made up of former Allied Powers, so the US, UK, France, Russia (successor to USSR), and PRC (successor to ROC). So 3 in the G7 and 2 in BRICS.

            I’m not sure what’s the point of this question.

            Now my turn: Name the bloc that just exceeded the G7 as the largest economies in the world.

            Here’s the answer:

            • JustMy2c@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              Not even one brics country trusts one other brics country. Nuf said. Hahaha you lost Argentina?