• insomniac_lemon@kbin.social
      143·
      11 months ago

      I mean people who bow out of “constructive participation” have likely been failed by their society in some/multiple ways (physical/mental healthcare, housing/community, transportation, or other ways related to money). Hard to be productive when you can’t fully function for even yourself.

      Then again, it’s a coin-flip on if they-who-hate(s)-the-government want(s) to fix those problems or if they want corporations to run everything (more than they already do, yet with no accountability at all). Maybe that’s what you meant, but lacking that specificity (better with something like thing-that-you-do-care-about is political). If that is your point, also easier-said-than-done especially with broken political systems and large-scale problems that are caused by still-upheld decades-old bad policy.

        • insomniac_lemon@kbin.social
          2·
          11 months ago

          Sure, maybe.

          But do you actually think anyone actually never tried in their entire life, and don’t you think maybe they’d have reasons for anything close to that being the case? Or are you going to say “nah it’s really just you (but not in a way that you deserve help with), I see no issues out here and effort is definitely worth it you must’ve just done it wrong (and even if not, still your fault).”

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
      115·
      11 months ago

      Before you can improve something, you need to have a clear understanding on its current state and if you don’t hate the current state of affairs, you can’t be insightful and objective enough to be of any help.

      • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
        68·
        11 months ago

        Hard disagree.

        The most effective and insightful critics of a thing are the ones who love that thing (e.g. a good theater critic loves theater).

        If you don’t love your society in spite of all of its flaws, then you aren’t in the right headspace to contribute to fixing it. You can’t be trusted to do so with care.

        • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
          73·
          11 months ago

          The most effective and insightful critics of a thing are the ones who love that thing (e.g. a good theater critic loves theater)

          That doesn’t really apply to a system that’s corrupt by design, though. All of the people who love the political system the most are the same ones that benefit from the corrupt status quo persisting.

          If you don’t love your society in spite of all of its flaws, then you aren’t in the right headspace to contribute to fixing it. You can’t be trusted to do so with care.

          Loving the society/country in general ≠ loving the political system. A great example would be patriots like Michael Moore tirelessly working to expose the rot so that it can be fixed rather than continue to destroy the society/country.

          You need someone who loves the country but hates the corruption of the system.

        • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.eeEnglish
          63·
          11 months ago

          Society != government.

          Usually they are not even related at all. Rebellions, partisans, civil wars, etc etc.

      • MacN'Cheezus@lemmy.todayOP
        27·
        11 months ago

        Correct. I fell for this trap for years, thinking I was making a difference getting engaged in political arguments. The truth is, I gained very little from this. While it might feel good to put your opinion out there (and practice defending it), the truth is, most people understand little to nothing about how the system works, so most of that time will literally go to waste.

        In fact, it will probably be worse than that, because not only are people wasting their time debating something they understand very little about, they also tend to get extremely emotional about it (i.e. unnecessarily upset when things aren’t going their way).

        The truth is, politics really changes very little in our day-to-day lives, despite the constant insistence of pundits from every side that the world is literally about to come to end because of , and this time it’s for real.

        But in almost all cases, first of all things likely won’t get either substantially better or substantially worse regardless of who’s in office, and second, your getting involved is likely going to do little to nothing to change the outcome. So it makes much more sense to just focus on your own life and the people you love and work on things you can actually make a difference about.

      • NaibofTabr@infosec.pubEnglish
        62·
        11 months ago

        One of the most effective voter suppression methods ever devised is spreading the message that voting doesn’t matter. This message supports the goals of people who want less voting. Do not believe this message. Do not spread it.

        • masquenox@lemmy.world
          2·
          11 months ago

          ever devised is spreading the message that voting doesn’t matter.

          Bullcrap. (So-called) “voter apathy” is a perfectly understandable and rational response to the realization that our (allegedly) “democratic” processes isn’t democratic in any way, shape or form - and it is, unfortunately, a necessary realization even if it is true that voting is still better than not voting at all.

          It is not the fault of these “apathetic voters” that actual democratic action is de facto criminalized at every turn and demonized by the media - blame the mouthpieces and talking heads that has propagandized these pseudo-democratic spectacles as the only “credible” form of public political participation for decades and even centuries.

        • Aniki 🌱🌿@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          11 months ago

          I never said you shouldn’t vote. The Rs are worse than the Ds. But voting doesn’t really lead to change for the better. Only the worse.